Mandated to give my ten year old's pronouns - how to respond

[Gofastboatsmojito]

I've recently had to fill in a form for my daughter's hobby, she's joining a group to rehearse and perform which builds on the standard teaching class.

As part of this I had to fill in a form which asked for her gender and her preferred pronouns. She's 10 FFS, and her school luckily don't go in for teaching gender ideology, sticking to a more factual PSHE curriculum. So she hasn't got a gender or pronouns.

I've filled the form in because I don't want her to miss out on this further opportunity, and I have no reason to believe the group, which is council run, are gender ideologues. I think they're just trying to be modern / some secondary children also do this hobby so maybe there have been requests from older children's parents.

I'd like to email my contact, who I email relatively often, expressing why this question is problematic.

How does the below sound? I'd like to add something about Cass but I'm not sure what the best point to include woukd be at very grateful for your ideas.

Preferred pronouns is a mandatory field (with only 3 choices! She/her, He/him, They/them - not very inclusive) but ethnicity has about 5 different questions where you can choose an Asian ethnicity or n/a, a Black ethnicity or n/a, a White non-European ethnicity or n/a, White European, or just opt out entirely. Its a badly designed form tbh.

Thanks

I hope you don't mind a little bit of feedback. I'm not happy being asked for my child's gender or pronouns. She doesn't have a gender or pronouns, she has a sex (female).

Asking for pronouns is akin to asking for a religion without giving the option of 'none', so I respectfully suggest you consider adding 'no preferred pronouns' or similar to the list of options, or adding an 'opt out' as you do for ethnicity

I think that's completely fine.

If you want the softest possible version, cut everything before 'I respectfully...' but I don't think there's anything wrong with your version.

Yes you should send that

Only change is I’d say, ‘I’d like to give some feedback’ - you don’t need to sound almost apologetic for telling them this.

Has anyone got a good suggestion about how to get Cass in there or might a less is more approach with better?

I would leave Cass out at this stage. It's not a school.

Less is more imo, and I think Changingplace is right.

That seems great I hope you do send it.
I'm sure there are other parents at the school having exactly the same issue and quandry.
I expect you've heard the stories about the fall of the Berlin Wall and how everyone thought the other, neigbours colleagues and family all agreed with the regime but because people were too scared to ask each other or talk about it they thought they were more alone than they were.

Appart from the obvious dangers its about our collective and personal self respect both in being coopted and being obviously lied to and gaslighted.

Agreed, it weakens her position.

Less is more initially.
If they comeback with the usual justifications, then she should quote the relevant passage with a link to the Report.

Not in the first email, only if they respond with justifications,in which case I'd reply with a short relevant passage and the link to the rest of the Report.
At which point hopefully they'd realise you know your stuff and/or read it themselves if they hadnt already.
If they dismiss you then you know they are more captured than you thought.

Agree completely

I don't understand. She obviously does have pronouns, you're using them by referring to her as 'she.' That's all the form is for... so that the adults know how to refer to the child. Why make a big deal out of it?

If you're trying to claim she has 'none' then you need to rewrite it without using the word 'she.'

But she does have pronouns, she/her. Load a bloody fuss.

Having to state the obvious so that a select few can not feel what they actually are, is a bloody fuss.

Totally agree with @oneleggedspider . Regardless of whether you disagree that some people should be allowed to specify pronouns that don’t match their birth sex, your daughter quite obviously does have pronouns, and it’s ludicrous to suggest she doesn’t.

If you’re going to complain, complain that you don’t like you or your daughter being expected to use pronouns other than the ones that seem obvious to you/her. But don’t make the irrational argument that you/she don’t have pronouns.

I get there's a wider issue going on but it's not a question with a "none" answer like religion.

It's factually incorrect for you to say she doesn't have pronouns. She does - the ones for her biological sex - and she uses them every day.

You can also add that mandatory pronoun declarations are harmful to trans people who are, for what ever reason, not willing to come out or not able to come out safely, because they are forced to choose between lying and outing themselves. Best practice is for any pronoun field to be optional.

It's bloody annoying to have to admit this, but others are right.
Your DD does have pronouns which are used by everyone around her.

She/ hers.
Suppose you had better put that?

Just join in with the bleeding obvious.

But they are already lying by pretending they can change pronouns / sex.

Agree.

'Having pronouns' is being used as short-hand for preferred pronouns.

I don't give a hootsie about whether people refer to me as she/her, he/him or they/them. So I don't have preferred pronouns - but in these times, saying I have none is pretty much the same as saying I don't have preferred.

No, she doesn't have pronouns.

People will generally use the normal English language pronouns when referring to a female person. That does not mean the person they are referring to owns the pronouns in the same way that I do not own the pronouns I and me, despite the fact I use them when referring to myself.

That said, I would probably say she does not have preferred pronouns to be completely accurate.

Are you really that unaware of what the problem is here?

Why would a biological woman who used she/her want to opt out of pronouns, or say she didn't have any preferred pronouns?

How would it make sense to opt out of pronouns? They're an integral part of everyday conversation. You can't opt out of grammar.

The problem is if you tick the box for she/her you are complicit in the whole pronoun nonsense that is invading every aspect of our lives. I’d just leave the section blank.