Jane Clare Jones blog on Tommy Robinson

[CassieMaddox]

Just a really great read
https://janeclarejones.com/2024/07/28/tommy-robinson-far-right-populism-and-gender-criticism/

These are my favourite bits:

The greatest danger to women and girls has always been, and remains, the men inside their own houses. This is the nature, and the devastation, of endemic male sexual violence. It usually happens in the place, and with the people, who are supposed to be most safe. It would perhaps be comforting to imagine that we could easily identify the men who are dangerous – the Muslims, the brown ones, the ones in dresses – and then we could keep ourselves safe by keeping them out. But the argument materialist feminists made throughout the early years of the gender wars applies equally here: men are a statistical danger to women as a class and there is prima facie no way of working out which ones are dangerous and which ones are not.

The argument is no longer ‘guilt by association’ or ‘purity politics,’ it is now a) What even is the far right anyway?, b) The far right doesn’t mean anything because I was called far right for knowing men aren’t women, c) You people think anyone who disagrees with you is far right, and d) He is not far right anyway. That is, it has moved from claiming that association with the far right is either not happening or if it is happening has no impact on the substance of GC discourse, to people openly associating with the far right and recycling far right talking points while denying that the far right is the far right.

But what feminist women have tried, largely unsuccessfully, to get across, is that these kinds of men are not on ‘your side,’ if ‘your side’ is genuinely defending women’s rights. These men are on their side, and their side wants a largely white patriarchal nation, in which ‘their’ women know their place and are ‘protected’ only insofar as ‘protection’ means keeping them guarded from ‘other’ men.

The pictures at the end of the article are very illuminating too.

Brava JCJ 👏

Please feel free to explain why the UK is a bastion of women's rights and how you are totally right to parrot right wing racists under the guise of caring about women.

I would have quoted you if I was! You've always been very clear.

If you want to know the state of women's rights in Muslim countries, maybe listen to Muslim feminists.

Start here:
https://www.npr.org/2012/04/24/151269591/foreign-policy-why-do-they-hate-us

The cultural relativism of some privileged western feminists has to be seen to be believed. Posters on a Feminist board saying that because no European country has perfect equality, we should turn a blind eye to women being given the death penalty in Iran or Afghan girls banned from education and forced into child marriage. Have a word with yourselves.

I'm obvioulsy not that clear you seem to have totally misinterpreted me.

I’m sorry but are you genuinely saying that you believe women in the UK are treated anywhere close to as badly as women living in Iran or Afghanistan? Seriously? You’re not being ironic or a doing a parody or pretending for wind-up purposes or something else? I really can’t tell if you are being genuine.

😂
I feel the same about you refusing to admit men are the problem and instead being fixated on Muslim men.

Flipping pot/kettle. I do at least try not to strawman or call names.

"Extreme radical" because I won't go around castigating 25% of the earths population solely on the basis of their religion. Ridiculous.

You know earlier when I said about posters being so far down a rabbit hole they couldn't see it? This is what I meant.

Sorry to reply to something from hours ago, I've been out all day.

The best argument that GCs can make in response to accusation of association with TR or the far right is that they're not - at least no more than a random cross section of society.

Society is made up of people with a broad range of views, a few very far left a few very far right, and most with some messy combination of centre left to centre right opinions. I don't see any reason to expect that those who call themselves either GC or women's rights campaigners should be any different to this.

What I think irritates many is the constant attempts to find, highlight and sometimes exaggerate links between GCs and the far right. They are at best misleading and at worst dangerous. I think it's reasonable so say that the fake publicity whipped up linking KJK and gender critical views with the far right, in the run up to KJKs tour of Australia & NZ nearly cost her her life.

Tommy Robinson has just nicked off after being given unrestricted bail.

The question/challenge was to find an Islamic country where women are yreated equally. I believe that whatever and I both find that a ridiculous double standard given there are no countries where women are treated equally.

You are drawing a false equivalence between religion and country. It is like me making sweeping claims about Christians based on the behaviour of Russia.

Even more so the women supporting her.

No doubt to make some more content about the outrageous 2 tier policing he's subject to 🙄

Where did I say that?

What I was responding to was a poster that asked about Muslim countries that treat women as equals and I responding to it as a red herring because it was. That poster (and you) are just parroting the exact same concern that TR and his ilk do. Of course women live under terrible conditions in Afghanistan and Iran, but if you're suggesting that the patriarchal ideals that fuel those conditions only exist in Islam and Islamic countries you're either ignorant or you're being obtuse. I care deeply about the abuses women live under in the middle east but I won't not respond when they're being used as a pawn to do exactly what the article is highlighting which is derail conversations about the abusive, misogynistic behaviour of White British men and the harm they cause to women and girls in the UK. That's what this thread and the article was about. Perhaps you could start a thread about what we can all do to help women and girls in the middle east, or do you only want to talk about it here so we don't talk about what White British men do?

@MalagaNights thank you so much for your posts on here. The one about "progressives" and boundaries was really helpful for me. Don't get disheartened, just like in real life there is no reasoning with some of these people but a post on here can be really helpful for people who aren't brainwashed gobshites.

No it isn’t. Some countries are ruled by religious leaders where the laws are based on interpretation of religious scripture and where women have zero equality in law. That is simply not the case in the UK and I honestly can’t believe that anyone is arguing that it is. It is so incredibly offensive to compare the plight of women in the UK to the plight of women in Iran. There is no comparison to be make unless it is to say how lucky and privileged we are.

Sounds like JCJ has been triggered. I'd say she's more upset that women refuse to listen to her arguments about why the political left are better for women and is taking Twitter "tirades" personally. We're always treated to a tiresome, several thousand word essay whenever she feels attacked. I wonder who's upset her this time? Wonder if she'll do a SM flounce too? She's got form for it.

The left and right are full of misogynists so I'm not sure what her points is.

I’m ducking out of this thread now. It’s too surreal for my liking. ✋

I'm not making a comparison. It's not a race to the bottom. I was literally pointing out the question was ridiculous.

You are not going to persuade me the biggest threat to women in the UK is Muslim or even Islamist immigrants. You are not going to persuade me Tommy Robinson has any form of grounds for his anti-muslim hate. There is no objective evidence for that view, just prejudice and far right scaremongering.

This thread is now proving JCJs point. It's meant to be a blog about the far right and has somehow turned into anti-Muslim tosh.

Wow Julie Bindel! In 2007!

That woman really is a powerhouse isn’t she!

I guarantee you 99% of the nation have no idea about that. Why are women so easily ignored.

You are not going to persuade me the biggest threat to women in the UK is Muslim or even Islamist immigrants.

please show me where I said it was the biggest threat? I won’t wait. Why always the need to twist what people have said?

I’m definitely definitely off this time 👋

Talking about the misogynistic abusive rape culture in British culture is too surreal for you? 🤨

No it isn’t. Some countries are ruled by religious leaders where the laws are based on interpretation of religious scripture and where women have zero equality in law. That is simply not the case in the UK and I honestly can’t believe that anyone is arguing that it is. It is so incredibly offensive to compare the plight of women in the UK to the plight of women in Iran. There is no comparison to be make unless it is to say how lucky and privileged we are.

This.

Yes I do think the increase in men from misogynistic cultures is a threat to women. Its already having an effect on general elections and policing and alot of crimes are covered up. The trouble is no one has assuaged my fears (shouting racist doesn't cut it). I have no interest in trying to convince people who live in a bubble and can't think critically. I'm more concerned about the world my daughters will live in.

Seriously, Cassie, some fool misusing a word is no excuse to follow numbly along.

This thread is now proving JCJs point. It's meant to be a blog about the far right and has somehow turned into anti-Muslim tosh.

I'm more than happy to condemn the far right and the Islamic fascists in this country. Why aren't you? I think it's because of your problem with nuance.

Why do Sharia courts, blatant discrimination against women girls, forced marriage etc not concern you. I can only think it's because you care less about Muslim women's rights. Why is that?

You're so wound up about the far right when you've just celebrated your dream of a Labour landslide. The far right is your get out of jail card. It's all a right wing plot. That's your excuse for tightening freedom of speech, hate crime legislation while allowing Self ID.