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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour to scrap Freedom of Speech Act

203 replies

Signalbox · 26/07/2024 12:46

Free Speech Union is threatening to bring Judicial Review proceedings.
This does feel pretty undemocratic. Is this a sign of things to come?

https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1816771547215835345

Statement from Bridgett Phillipson...

Lastly, I have written to colleagues separately about my decision to stop further commencement of the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023, in order to consider options, including its repeal. I am aware of concerns that the Act would be burdensome on providers and on the OfS, and I will confirm my long term plans as soon as possible. To enable students to thrive in higher education, I welcome the OfS’s plans to introduce strengthened protections for students facing harassment and sexual misconduct, including relating to the use of non-disclosure agreements in such cases by universities and colleges.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2024-07-26/hcws26

Labour to scrap Freedom of Speech Act
OP posts:
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Signalbox · 27/07/2024 09:21

Chersfrozenface · 27/07/2024 08:52

So we're left with having to threaten legal action, or even raise money for legal action, against universities like Swansea over trying to cancel or refusing to take bookings for women's rights events and speakers.

Edited

Yes each Uni will continue to turn a blind eye until they personally get sued. Maybe the law wasn’t perfect but I do think it would have sent a strong message to universities that they can’t continue to pander to a minority of activist students with the loudest voices.

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OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 27/07/2024 09:34

I'd like a free speech bill which included an obligation of right-to-reply. That absolutely free speech should be allowed but in the case of any contentious speaker, or anyone speaking against the equality and humanity of any protected group, any event must give equal platform, in the same event and to the same audience, to a speaker of equal impact (comparable level of qualifications, experience and oratory skill) giving the opposing view.

So yes you can invite a holocaust denier to speak, but you have to give the same amount of time in the same event to someone who will destroy what they said point by point. Same going for all other points of contention.

Free speech is important because it gives the idiotic, antiscientific and bigotted enough rope to hang themselves. If there isn't free speech the same things get said in private where they can't be challenged or disproven by those who know better.

Operation "Let them speak"

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Alltheprettyseahorses · 27/07/2024 10:12

That behind the scenes changing Labour from the inside is going really well!

StainlessSteelMouse · 27/07/2024 10:29

"Labour will sort everything out, just wait and see, we'll have a seat at the table"

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 27/07/2024 10:32

Signalbox · 27/07/2024 09:21

Yes each Uni will continue to turn a blind eye until they personally get sued. Maybe the law wasn’t perfect but I do think it would have sent a strong message to universities that they can’t continue to pander to a minority of activist students with the loudest voices.

Yes, absolutely this.

TheColourOutOfSpace · 27/07/2024 10:37

Any day now, we're going to get that feminist utopia that was promised by those who were turned on by scolding us to vote Labour.

Imnobody4 · 27/07/2024 10:41

Well that's just killed any slim hope I had that Bridget Phillipson would not be as bad as I feared.

https://x.com/threadreaderapp/status/1816930634746466647?t=B9_4CygAiMNtA2WW346fAQ&s=09

Excellent thread from Abhishek Saha

This is a personal thread.It is also a tale of two ministers.One of them shepherded over the line the most significant bill on academic freedom in living memory.The other released a written statement at 9:40 am today, killing it.

x.com

https://x.com/threadreaderapp/status/1816930634746466647?s=09&t=B9_4CygAiMNtA2WW346fAQ

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 11:02

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 27/07/2024 08:49

You seem to have conveniently ignored this bit of her statement:

Lastly, I have written to colleagues separately about my decision to stop further commencement of the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023, in order to consider options, including its repeal.

This isn't just kicking the can down the road.

Yeah - my post was in response to those claiming it was somehow undemocratic for her to delay the implementation while she decides on next steps.

Obviously repeal will require Parliamentary support.

But those implying that she was somehow ignoring Parliament or acting improperly by delaying it while that plays out is simply wrong.

Signalbox · 27/07/2024 11:22

It’ll be interesting to see on what basis FSU intend to bring a JR. If it’s completely and clearly within the rules the FSU won’t even get permission to bring a case in the first place. There must be some ambiguity here.

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samarrange · 27/07/2024 11:25

Just because it's called the "Free Speech Act" (or, to give it its full title, the "Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act") doesn't mean that before this act there was no free speech, and that repealing it means the end of free speech. That's just rhetorical sleight of hand.

The issues are (as usual) way more complicated than the headlines make out. They are more complicated than feminist claims that "Labour want to deplatform GC people", they are more complicated than Tory claims that "Labour want to deplatform anyone right of centre", and they are also more complicated than Bridget Phillipson's claim that "This could become a licence for antisemites".

In several cases, the speakers being uninvited/deplatformed have been uninvited by students' unions (or other societies affiliated with the SU of any given uni), which are ostensibly independent of universities, but of course can never be so entirely. A complex aspect of the Act is about defining where the responsibility should lie. It creates a requirement for complex new relationships between SUs and unis, and a large number of possibilities for conflict between the two over issues that have nothing to do with what most of us here would consider to be free speech. It also creates a huge workload for SUs, which despite their reputation in the tabloids are mostly dominated by Trotskyists, in every university and most FE colleges in . Overseeing these relationships will be the Office For Students, a body that was sufficiently critical to the previous government that its proposal for the first Chair was Toby "Actually mate, I had my dick up her arse" Young.

Have a read of this or this, which describe the realities of the implementation of the Act, and ask yourself if it sounds like a workable way of preventing deplatforming, or if it's more likely to turn into a bureaucratic nightmare, which the tabloids can then use to bash universities (one of their favourite pastimes anyway).

Controversial free-speech law delayed 'over anti-semitism fears'

The government is considering repealing a controversial law that could have seen universities and student unions fined for failing to uphold freedom of speech on campus. A Whitehall source branded The Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023, whi...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/controversial-free-speech-law-delayed-143100875.html

Imnobody4 · 27/07/2024 12:31

This is not ending the culture war, its turning a blind eye. The Universities are a disgrace, complaining it's all just too difficult while surrendering to the intolerant.

www.officeforstudents.org.uk/news-blog-and-events/blog/arif-ahmed-updates-on-ofs-work-to-implement-new-free-speech-legislation/

A reminder that we are currently consulting on our new free complaints scheme that we expect to launch on 1 August 2024. Students, staff and visiting speakers will be able to complain to us about restrictions on free speech at a university, college or relevant students’ union where they claim to have suffered adverse consequences. Under our proposals, if we find the complaint justified, we may make recommendations such as changes to policies or processes or payments to the complainant. Our consultation is open until 10 March 2024.

I hope the results of this will be published.

Below is Arif Ahmed speech on appointment to his role which now is about to disappear, just to remind everyone.

https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/news-blog-and-events/press-and-media/transcript-of-arif-ahmeds-speech-at-kings-college-london/

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dottiehens · 27/07/2024 13:19

Labour plans are starting to be clearer to see. State domination on education. This is really frightening and dangerous for any country. They began with trying to make private schools go bust if possible by adding VAT. Now this. Let’s wait to see what they include and add to curriculums in the next few years plus the idea of lowering the voters age. Ignore it at your peril.

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 13:54

Signalbox · 27/07/2024 11:22

It’ll be interesting to see on what basis FSU intend to bring a JR. If it’s completely and clearly within the rules the FSU won’t even get permission to bring a case in the first place. There must be some ambiguity here.

If a minister irrationally or unreasonably fails to commence a statute, that could certainly be open to judicial review.

A new Government backed by a dramatically different Parliament taking some time to consider whether and when to propose repealing legislation is not anywhere close to irrational or unreasonable in my view.

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 14:06

dottiehens · 27/07/2024 13:19

Labour plans are starting to be clearer to see. State domination on education. This is really frightening and dangerous for any country. They began with trying to make private schools go bust if possible by adding VAT. Now this. Let’s wait to see what they include and add to curriculums in the next few years plus the idea of lowering the voters age. Ignore it at your peril.

Edited

This is the most hyperbolic nonsense.

Labour are asserting state control of education by checks notes not commencing legislation which has not been in place at any point in the past, and which would actually impose control and restrictions on universities.

Right.

Signalbox · 27/07/2024 14:08

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 13:54

If a minister irrationally or unreasonably fails to commence a statute, that could certainly be open to judicial review.

A new Government backed by a dramatically different Parliament taking some time to consider whether and when to propose repealing legislation is not anywhere close to irrational or unreasonable in my view.

Time will tell.
The JR will be interesting.

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PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 14:12

Signalbox · 27/07/2024 14:08

Time will tell.
The JR will be interesting.

It really won’t. I doubt it will materialise.

The Act explicitly gives the Secretary of State the power to decide when the Act comes into force. If the Secretary of State delays that to allow Parliament to repeal the legislation, there is no court that would consider that to be unreasonable or irrational.

Signalbox · 27/07/2024 14:16

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 14:12

It really won’t. I doubt it will materialise.

The Act explicitly gives the Secretary of State the power to decide when the Act comes into force. If the Secretary of State delays that to allow Parliament to repeal the legislation, there is no court that would consider that to be unreasonable or irrational.

Like I said time will tell.

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PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 14:18

Signalbox · 27/07/2024 14:16

Like I said time will tell.

Time has already told. The question of whether Ministers are under a duty to commence legislation was settled in the Courts in 1995.

Rummly · 27/07/2024 14:18

I don’t get the “repressive” argument.

Universities are perfectly happy to host the most appalling antisemitic and pro-trans nonsense.

What they’re scared of are Jews and GC points of view creating problems for them among the shouty students.

I thought this Bill was long overdue. I’m not surprised that BP has killed it off (yes, she has): it’s what you get from a technocratic, principle-free government.

samarrange · 27/07/2024 14:26

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 14:06

This is the most hyperbolic nonsense.

Labour are asserting state control of education by checks notes not commencing legislation which has not been in place at any point in the past, and which would actually impose control and restrictions on universities.

Right.

I have it on good authority that Labour is planning to introduce foreign substances into our precious bodily fluids. 😉

CassieMaddox · 27/07/2024 15:01

RebelIdeas · 26/07/2024 17:25

twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1816781668331528327

And Akua Reinsorf KC says
"I’m surprised & shocked that @bphillipsonMP has announced that the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023 won’t come into force on 1 August & may be repealed. The Act was not perfect, but it’s quite evident that free speech and academic freedom are in peril in universities"

Can any woman here tell me why they voted Labour if they value women's sex based rights?
If you vowed to change things from within why the f are you letting this happen?

😂
I am pleased they are scrapping it. Universities have better things to do than have to be fined if they don't want to host a particular speaker. The whole act was Conservative culture wars nonsense.

Like the BBC article says, this isn't about trans. Holocaust denial, MRAs, radical Islamic preachers etc etc would all be protected.

Happy with my Labour vote thanks very much. Very pleased most of the divisive rubbish has stopped, despite the Torygraph's desperate efforts to keep it going.

CassieMaddox · 27/07/2024 15:03

0Oo · 26/07/2024 23:26

This legislation was a back door for racism, sexist, and anti-feminism discourse, to claim protection under freedom of speech. I prefer that they drop it. Let's not throw women under the bridge again.

Edited

Well said

CassieMaddox · 27/07/2024 15:05

TheColourOutOfSpace · 27/07/2024 10:37

Any day now, we're going to get that feminist utopia that was promised by those who were turned on by scolding us to vote Labour.

Scolding is a misogynistic term. Please don't use it.

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