Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour to scrap Freedom of Speech Act

203 replies

Signalbox · 26/07/2024 12:46

Free Speech Union is threatening to bring Judicial Review proceedings.
This does feel pretty undemocratic. Is this a sign of things to come?

https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1816771547215835345

Statement from Bridgett Phillipson...

Lastly, I have written to colleagues separately about my decision to stop further commencement of the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023, in order to consider options, including its repeal. I am aware of concerns that the Act would be burdensome on providers and on the OfS, and I will confirm my long term plans as soon as possible. To enable students to thrive in higher education, I welcome the OfS’s plans to introduce strengthened protections for students facing harassment and sexual misconduct, including relating to the use of non-disclosure agreements in such cases by universities and colleges.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2024-07-26/hcws26

Labour to scrap Freedom of Speech Act
OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
RoyalCorgi · 26/07/2024 12:48

It's quite disappointing, but I think it would have been problematic to implement. The last govt had rules requiring universities to clamp down on antisemitism, if I remember correctly - not sure how they'd have managed to fulfil both those requirements.

IwantToRetire · 26/07/2024 17:24

This article by a BBC has quotes explaining why Labour thinks this should not be implemented https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gj1x11nmo

... a government source told the BBC the legislation would have opened the way for Holocaust deniers to be allowed on campus, and was an “anti-semite charter”. ..

I always find this explanation in relation to any number of things not that credible, and more likely from those with other issues, and are just using an issue that for many has real meaning.

And from the Guardian:

Phillipson was accused of pursuing “ideological dogma” by Damian Hinds, the former schools minister who is now the shadow education secretary.

“Free speech is a fundamental right, and this must extend to universities. Without the ability to freely express views in higher education, these centres of learning risk becoming centres of co-option and intolerance,” he said.

“The fact this Labour government is willing to scrap the measures we put in place to protect these rights makes clear that they are willing to sacrifice the next generation on the altar of their own ideological dogma.”

Saranya Thambirajah, the National Union of Students’ vice-president for liberation and equality, said: “Many of us were truly dreading the impact this act would have, serving to further divide our campuses and put marginalised student communities further at risk. The government has sent a clear message that they won’t be playing politics with either free speech or hate speech.”

https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jul/26/labour-halts-tory-law-freedom-of-speech-universities-education

Woman with a speaker in a green top at a protest outside a university

Government delays university free-speech fines

Powers for universities to be fined for failing to uphold freedom of speech have been put on hold.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gj1x11nmo

RebelIdeas · 26/07/2024 17:25

twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1816781668331528327

And Akua Reinsorf KC says
"I’m surprised & shocked that @bphillipsonMP has announced that the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023 won’t come into force on 1 August & may be repealed. The Act was not perfect, but it’s quite evident that free speech and academic freedom are in peril in universities"

Can any woman here tell me why they voted Labour if they value women's sex based rights?
If you vowed to change things from within why the f are you letting this happen?

OvaHere · 26/07/2024 17:39

Well I suppose one silver lining is that it shows problematic Acts can be repealed where there's proof of them causing problems for a specific group of people.

We have a lot of proof.

Repeal the GRA.

terryleather · 26/07/2024 17:57

OvaHere · 26/07/2024 17:39

Well I suppose one silver lining is that it shows problematic Acts can be repealed where there's proof of them causing problems for a specific group of people.

We have a lot of proof.

Repeal the GRA.

Well said Ova

StainlessSteelMouse · 26/07/2024 18:20

There would have been a few provisions that might have been difficult to implement, but if Phillipson just wanted to pause implementation so she could fix those, she'd have said so. By telegraphing repeal she's setting the stage for repealing the whole thing.

Interesting that the government statement went big on a supporting quote from the President of the Board of Deputies. It's true that the Jewish community are very nervous and have been since October 7, for good reason. But Labour fought the bill tooth and nail in the last parliament, and even if they hadn't, it would be reasonable to suppose that Phillipson had been got at by (a) university administrators who don't like the idea of being held liable, and (b) lefty academics who think the very concept of free speech is a far right dogwhistle.

And if anyone thinks the NUS gives a flying fuck about antisemitism, I have a bridge to sell you.

Signalbox · 26/07/2024 18:25

I've no problem with them repealing this Act (aside from the fact that I think it was necessary) but surely there is a democratic process to follow that would be similar to an act being introduced in the first instance? Afaik a government can't just scrap an act that has already democratically been voted for.

OP posts:
Signalbox · 26/07/2024 18:27

And if anyone thinks the NUS gives a flying fuck about antisemitism, I have a bridge to sell you.

Exactly. It just doesn't ring true does it?

OP posts:
OP posts:
MidCleg · 26/07/2024 18:46

3 weeks in and women's rights have reversed by 4 years. Jo Phoenix, James Esses', Kathleen Stock's.

Labour GC Luvvies Jane CJ, Ali C, Julie Bindel - it is those very "important leading Labour feminists" to solve this. Course their Labour Party buddies will listen to them (but Starmer will just remove their Whip).

0Oo · 26/07/2024 23:26

Signalbox · 26/07/2024 12:46

Free Speech Union is threatening to bring Judicial Review proceedings.
This does feel pretty undemocratic. Is this a sign of things to come?

https://x.com/SpeechUnion/status/1816771547215835345

Statement from Bridgett Phillipson...

Lastly, I have written to colleagues separately about my decision to stop further commencement of the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023, in order to consider options, including its repeal. I am aware of concerns that the Act would be burdensome on providers and on the OfS, and I will confirm my long term plans as soon as possible. To enable students to thrive in higher education, I welcome the OfS’s plans to introduce strengthened protections for students facing harassment and sexual misconduct, including relating to the use of non-disclosure agreements in such cases by universities and colleges.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2024-07-26/hcws26

This legislation was a back door for racism, sexist, and anti-feminism discourse, to claim protection under freedom of speech. I prefer that they drop it. Let's not throw women under the bridge again.

PaterPower · 26/07/2024 23:34

the National Union of Students’ vice-president for liberation and equality

Jesus, where do they pull these titles from?

And I rather suspect the “liberation” element of their role gets a lot more of their attention than trying to achieve actual equality on campus. Bet many Jewish students, for instance, haven’t felt equally heard or treated since (at least) October.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/07/2024 23:37

Well I suppose one silver lining is that it shows problematic Acts can be repealed where there's proof of them causing problems for a specific group of people.

We have a lot of proof.

Repeal the GRA.

Excellent point.

Precipice · 26/07/2024 23:38

And if anyone thinks the NUS gives a flying fuck about antisemitism, I have a bridge to sell you.

No, but in their position against this Act, they are on the same side as the UJS (Union of Jewish Students), which does care about antisemitism.

(I take no position on this Act as I haven't looked into it.)

TempestTost · 26/07/2024 23:47

0Oo · 26/07/2024 23:26

This legislation was a back door for racism, sexist, and anti-feminism discourse, to claim protection under freedom of speech. I prefer that they drop it. Let's not throw women under the bridge again.

Edited

It's not a back door.

Freedom of speech means people can say things and make arguments that some think are sexist, racist, or or any other thing they disapprove of.

Others can argue against them.

That's the fucking point.

GreenUp · 27/07/2024 00:58

Is it actually Bridget Phillipson making these decisions or some of the misogynists in the civil service who have been involved in the creation of the Bill?

How would Phillipson be in a position to know anything about the Bill - she says she's "aware of concerns" but who is she getting her info from?

RandySavage · 27/07/2024 00:58

0Oo is obviously one of those 'freedom of speech as long as I like it' people.

Everyone supports freedom of speech for things they agree with. It only means anything if you agree people have the freedom to say things you disagree with.

samarrange · 27/07/2024 01:19

Signalbox · 26/07/2024 18:25

I've no problem with them repealing this Act (aside from the fact that I think it was necessary) but surely there is a democratic process to follow that would be similar to an act being introduced in the first instance? Afaik a government can't just scrap an act that has already democratically been voted for.

The government does not scrap/repeal an act. Parliament does that. Of course, in practice the government has a majority in Parliament, in this case a stonking one, and so when the Cabinet decides to do something, it is going to happen - but formally it's the democratically elected Parliament that does it.

IwantToRetire · 27/07/2024 02:03

Presumably this is the problem if you have a change of Government just as a bill is about to come into being.

Not sure of the powers of a Minister to put "on hold" something that Parliament said should become law in a few days.
.

If you read all of the 2 articles I posted links to above, it seems to be as much about the financial cost to universities should it be found they had breached someone's freedom of speech. As they go on to talk about other financial priorities. Almost implying if there was no financial implication it would not have been halted.

So suspect despite what seem like principled considerations about free speech, it is that no university wants to have to deal with possible fines, on endless law suits.

IMO part of the problem is not the over the top comments about full on racists and anti-abortionist being given a platform, but much more the way factionalism is now how (not just students) people launch personal / moral attacks on those who have views they dont agree with. ie against GC women, accusing them of being transphobes and causing distress, and as Suella Braverman did saying any criticism of Israel / Zionism is anti semitic, even when it is Jewish people saying it.

Its like everyone wants to out Trump Trump, whose only method of making a political point is to personally insult someone who has said something he doesn't agree with.

Although judging by the odd occasions I watch chat / discussion shows on tv, I think quite a substantial part of what passes for political debate currently has already taken this direction.

And not sure we can go back.

ie young people are growing up with this as the norm.

TempestTost · 27/07/2024 07:13

If universities don't protect the right to discuss controversial ideas, frankly they might as well shut down. Perhaps they could keep certain technical sections though I believe they also would suggest from lack of protecting controversial conversations.

Had they upheld their obligations instead of wholesale undermining them, they wouldn't be dealing now with the possibility of fines.

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 07:32

Parliament did not say that this Act should come into force in a few days.

The Act says that ‘[most] provisions of this Act come into force on such day as the Secretary of State may by regulations made by statutory instrument appoint’.

A previous Minister decided it should come into force in August.

The current Minister has now revoked that commencement order - precisely in line with the powers that Parliament has given her.

TheColourOutOfSpace · 27/07/2024 08:41

OvaHere · 26/07/2024 17:39

Well I suppose one silver lining is that it shows problematic Acts can be repealed where there's proof of them causing problems for a specific group of people.

We have a lot of proof.

Repeal the GRA.

This is an excellent point and I agree. One day we will repeal the GRA. I am sure of it.

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 27/07/2024 08:49

PlanetJanette · 27/07/2024 07:32

Parliament did not say that this Act should come into force in a few days.

The Act says that ‘[most] provisions of this Act come into force on such day as the Secretary of State may by regulations made by statutory instrument appoint’.

A previous Minister decided it should come into force in August.

The current Minister has now revoked that commencement order - precisely in line with the powers that Parliament has given her.

You seem to have conveniently ignored this bit of her statement:

Lastly, I have written to colleagues separately about my decision to stop further commencement of the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023, in order to consider options, including its repeal.

This isn't just kicking the can down the road.

Chersfrozenface · 27/07/2024 08:52

So we're left with having to threaten legal action, or even raise money for legal action, against universities like Swansea over trying to cancel or refusing to take bookings for women's rights events and speakers.

Swipe left for the next trending thread