KJK & bringing your whole self to work

[BackToLurk]

First a position statement. I've personally disliked much of KJK's output. I've said before that I think lots of what she does is unhelpful.
However, I can't think of one thing in this video that I disagree with. I don't need anyone to bring their whole self to work. I'm with KJK on this. I don't care

https://x.com/ThePosieParker/status/1816044865672696256

Yep totally agree with you. Leave yourself at home. Be a professional and i dont want to know what you think.

Hmm sort of. I don’t have an issue with the religion thing really. My GP having a cross on their necklace wouldn’t bother me nor would a consultant with a headscarf covering their hair.

I do agree actually. I find it jarring if I am being treated by someone with symbols of outside interests. Even a cross around the neck I think is a small statement that makes you wonder about who they are as a person, when really, you want to be focused on whatever treatment they are doing. I don’t like tattoos and piercings either. A small stud in the nose isn’t a problem because it is not making a statement about any subculture, but eyebrow or tongue piercings, that kind of thing are too much.

For me, someone making a visible show of their beliefs or subculture is doing it as a message to others, which either aligns them to those others “We share the same beliefs/like the same things” or separates them from those others “I believe differently than you and like different things from you”. It’s not neutral and it’s unnerving in a situation where someone has power over you.

This is a genuine question not a gotcha but how do you feel about people who believe their religion requires them to wear something. A turban for example or hijab.

I believe Sikhs don’t have to wear Turbans (they mustn’t cut their hair, or walk around without a sword, etc) and Muslim women don’t have to cover their hair either.

I've known a couple of Sikh men who had shaven heads. It surprised me! I think the covering of the face or head by Muslim women is cultural rather than religious: I've been told by Moroccans and Tunisians, for example, that it wasn't done at all previously in their counties but has crept in with the spread of Wahabism and the strict forms of Islam.

Personally, I don't mind displays of serious belief, like religion (although I would object to a female doctor covering her face for non-clinical reasons), but I hate tattoos or weird coloured hair on someone with a serious job. Such things erode my faith in them - I wouldn't take advice from someone with blue hair.

When I was a teen I worked in a shop in an area with a high Indian and Pakistani population and the Muslim men drank alcohol (they even joked about the irony of fasting during Ramadan and still drinking alcohol on an empty stomach), there was one Sikh man who wore a turban and he had great sales figures, because fellow Sikhs would go to him and he would give them special discounts, so it was a way to signal affiliation/tribe in a very practical sense, not just an expression of his devotion to his faith.

The last few decades all religions seem to be going more extreme and strict. I remember back at the time my colleagues were expressing concern that there was a new Sikh school so strict even the girls all wore turbans.

Kenan Malik writes about this in one of his books. Essentially he argues that his parents generation were quietly religious, it was a private matter. His generation rebelled and became more secular & non-religious, then the generation below's rebellion was to become much more strictly religious. He's from a Muslim background

Totally agree.

Some of the best people I've worked with have been people whose personal lives I knew next to nothing about.

Meanwhile, my friend who is very "be kind" and "TWAW" works in an ultra "be kind" place where people bring their whole selves to work. Everyone has preferred pronouns and shares all their deep and meaningful thoughts with the class, but when a deaf member of staff complained about being excluded in meetings and suggested that the team could have some awareness training, they didn't want to know. Because that would involve actual time, effort and money rather than simply painting fucking rainbows everywhere. And now my friend is going through infertility and IVF and it would be much easier for her to get through the working day if everyone got on with their fucking work instead of sharing pictures of their kids and she wasn't receiving daily emails reminding her to contribute to a gift for a guy who is going on paternity leave soon, but she's stuck in a culture of over sharing.

Let's go back to just bringing our work selves to work.

I definitely see this in action where I live. I think there are two things going on though. There have been many influxes of people fleeing religious conflict and coming to the UK as refugees, bringing stricter religion with them - a bit like America, where so many people are devout and many separatist sects have flourished. On the other hand I see born and bred young British women now, with the full face covering walking around with a chip on their shoulder, spoiling for some sort of confrontation.

And let's face it. No one is arguing that Bob the racist misogynist brings his whole self to work. Or devoutly Catholic Mary brings the bit that thinks gay men are going to burn for eternity.

"Bring your whole self to work. No not you"

Following a throat operation I had nhs speech therapy for a while. Perfectly lovely young woman but her office was adorned with a series of framed trans rights symbols, pictures etc all pink, blue, white. Small and not garish but so unnecessary.

It's not enough that men who transition get state provided voice feminisation training, the therapy room has to be festooned with their religious symbolism lest they feel unsafe or unwelcome.

I just assumed I was dealing with an idiot.

I've been thinking too much about this, as you may tell. I think what annoys me most is that it's rooted in such an extraordinarily pessimistic view of fellow humans. It might think it's kind and accepting, but it seems to say that without outward signs of who people are we can't be relied on to treat them well. Just try not to be a dick to anyone, without having to know the ins and outs of every aspect of their lives.

Here endeth the first lesson.

This is one of the reasons I love being SE.
I don't need to see anyones authentic self at work, I just need them to do their job in a professional manner. Who they love/what they wear/worship etc I really do not care or want to know

I partly agree. I don't want my gynaecologist to have pink hair and lip piercings. Why? Im honestly not 100% sure. Does it imply a less than serious nature? I think that might be it. I don't need them wearing tweeds and horn rimmed glasses, but I do want them dressed smartly and clean as a whistle.
I don't give a monkeys bum if my hairdresser does though. It's pretty much the uniform in some fields.
Beyond clothing and style though, I'm in full agreement. I want them to pull their bloody weight with the job then they can sod off and be their full selves in their OWN time. They're paid to do the job, not be "Ursula the rainbow unicorn".

Edited to add another thought.

When I started in the City 25 years ago there weren't any openly gay people in my workplace. Now there are a lot. In my work place bring your whole self to work meant that gay people shouldnt have to play the pronoun game to hide the fact they were in same sex relationships. I don't really understand what she's says saying I know how many kids my co-workers have and what football teams support because we talk to each other about stuff outside work. Do people really object to this?

I suppose a stylist is allowed to display their style. It’s appropriate. Just like a shop assistant in a Christian bookshop wouldn’t be making a statement by wearing a cross around their neck.

Sorry to add I think the reason some of my younger colleagues are comfortably with talking about their same sex partner is because of initiatives like bring your whole self to work. I AM pessimistic about other people -it's why I fully support quotas in my workplace to increase female representation at senior management level.

I think she is speaking about providers of services don’t need to communicate their “whole selves” to the users of the service, rather than about colleagues making friendly conversation with each other.

I think small personal interactions are important.
Hi, how are you doing? How did your house move go?
I think the issue with some of the symbols and signals indicating tribal alliances is that it prevents some others from interacting as they feel their interaction would not be welcome. Its a closed door. The speech therapist in the comment above was signalling strongly to her male transitioner clients that she was there to help them. The thing she didn't understand is that she was signalling to everyone else that they were less important. See, THIS is the group I will prioritise. Almost certainly not the intention, but it's the result.

True. We're only allowed to bring our fake selves to work. The fake selves that believe humans can change sex, obviously.

I think that, much like #BeKind, bring your whole self to work was good at first but has been co-opted and messed with too much.

When my workplace first started using it as a tag line it was largely about gay colleagues feeling safe in mentioning their same sex partner when the meeting started with “do anything fun this weekend?”, or someone struggling with their mental health feeling safe in mentioning that to their manager, or when I was open with my team that my sick leave was due to a nasty miscarriage. Not having to cover up who you are and what you’re going through, when those things affect your delivery at work. Now it’s about bringing your own preferences and campaigns, which is sometimes ok and often inappropriate. And the difference between being open with your colleagues and being open with customers/service users seems to have transformed too, not always for the better.

Mentioning a Partner of whatever sex is fine, making your entire personality about who/what you prefer to shag not so much

Yes, when TERFs bring their whole selves to work they get fired.

But this is a bit like people who say that they don't have an accent... What you read as neutral in terms of dress, jewellery, hair, etc. is in fact itself a series of statements and decisions, they're just ones you agree with and find so inoffensive as to be unnoticeable. Blonde highlights being fine but blue hair being a symbol, or earrings being fine but a nose ring being a statement - those are value judgements, not objective fact.