This is disastrous for women and yet so easily remedied

[Omlettes]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/jul/22/sex-bias-labs-women-losers-research-ageing
“It’s a massive problem,” he said. “The lack of in-depth research on female mice means we only know what works on male mice at the complete exclusion of female ones.”

Thanks for posting: that was fascinating.

Female biology different from male! Wow. It is fascinating, but goodness me, we really are seen as just a weird too-complicated non-male group, aren't we?

There is a chapter on this in Invisible Women. So many clinical studies in humans either haven't recruited women, or have but have not analysed the results by sex.

Women have profoundly different immune systems to men. There are multiple studies that show this. For example, low dose daily aspirin has a protective effect in men for colorectal cancer, but in women does not and can cause excess bleeding.

Aging involves the immune system, so not surprising there are sex differences.

Male is the default human. We spent eons ignoring the needs of women totally, and then have switched so quickly into the view that men and women are indistinguishable and sex is a colonial construct nonsense, that it still comes as a suprise that women are not just smaller more slightly built men.

So does this apply to all drug testing?

Not 100%, but most early phase trials recruit healthy male volunteers due to fears of pregnant and us complicated women making it harder to analyse results. There will be hundreds of drugs that have been scrapped at Phase I that haven't worked in men, but might have worked in women.

The vast majority of lab mice are male.

I’ve occasionally had forays into things that are meant to be protective to health, such as low dose aspirin. It appears from this article, that unless any such information specifies that it includes women (who’ve given birth) that I shouldn’t do so again as I might be doing more harm than good.

Well at least, this way, I can stop bothering to try and make myself more healthy using any mainstream source. Seeking out women doctors who specialize in women’s health are likely to be much more help. Glad I’ve had my eyes opened as, though I knew most of the tests were carried out on males, it hadn’t crossed my mind that something that benefits men might actually worsen outcomes for women. The doctors creating these reports and the press reporting on these things without ever mentioning that fact are effectively responsible for worsening women’s health.

I'm actually slightly more concerned about the development of drugs to extend longevity. How long? Who is going to pay the nursing care fees of all these very old people?

The point is to be more healthy so you dont need them

I'm not on X, so would someone who is mind sharing it. More women need to see this and pressure Wes Streeting and Peter Kyle.
Thanks

Thankyou for posting OP, really interesting. Curious about whether lab mice offer a close enough model to humans to actually be useful - in the same way that drugs which don’t work on men may work on women, drugs which don’t work on mice may work on humans… <slightly misses point>

Not the point of the thread but: amazing how the Guardian picks and chooses when to acknowledge biological fact.

The article suggests that the lack of research into female biology is due to a lack of interest among researchers. I would suggest it’s actually a lack of funding. I also wonder if there is a lack of base knowledge about how female biology works if a ‘normal’ human is always male.

Interesting that the amount of money in football seems to be driving an understanding that kit and training schedules developed for men aren’t the best approach for women. I wonder if one of the reasons this hasn’t been picked up before is that lack of understanding of sex differences?

All models cell, silicon, animal and human are imperfect. Even trials in humans can't always be accurate in showing what treatments are effective when used outside a trial in the messier general population.

Mice models play a role in helping to screen drug candidates, mostly to show which might be toxic. Some mouse models are engineered to be able to give some data on whether the drugs might be effective, but showing a treatment is effective is a long drawn out imperfect expensive process

I know. The cognitive dissonance is extreme.

This is such an interesting topic (and the Criado-Perez book is excellent, if people haven't read it) but I do think government are slowly starting to become a bit more aware of this, particularly through the women's health strategy. We should probably push for the equivalent of the NHS Race and Health Observatory to look at sex disparities in health.

I don't think this is lack of interest. All research builds on existing knowledge. If you are a researcher trying to build your reputation, the safest bet is to build on what is already known. In biology what is already known is almost exclusively built on male models, and so this perpetuates. It is a brave researcher who would take the road less trodden.

Invisible Women is now on Spotify if you have a subscription

Just scrolled down and found this from 2019!
www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/31/sexist-research-means-drugs-more-tailored-to-men-says-scientist
I find this bit interesting
Recent research has challenged the reasoning behind using almost exclusively male animals, with one analysis of nearly 300 neuroscience studies revealing that data collected from female mice was not more variable than that from males – in fact, for some measures, the reverse was true.Female rodents have a four- to five-day reproductive cycle, during which oestrogen and progesterone increase roughly fourfold. However, male mice housed together establish a dominance hierarchy in which the circulating testosterone levels in the dominant males are, on average, five times as high as the subordinates

If research and good healthcare one day means men will outlive women, society in general and men individually are going to discover just how much work older women have been doing for old men.

Men with dementia are usually cared for by their wives, while women with dementia are in care-homes.

Likewise, widowers need a lot more external help than widows do. If men really start outliving their wives, they will very quickly want healthcare to keep those wives alive.

'Not the point of the thread but: amazing how the Guardian picks and chooses when to acknowledge biological fact.'
Isnt it just?
Worth a letter to Viner

@Imnobody4
Very interesting! That could be added as a link to Wes Streeting and PeterKyle.
There has to be a crackdown on this, the fallout is too damaging to half the population.
My line to them is going to be something like
"Half the population is being denied safe medical treatment because of the research model". And I'll add all the relevant links.

Good idea 👍

There was a decent overview a while ago about why it's not unusual for drug dosages to suit men more than women.

Zucker I, Prendergast BJ. Sex differences in pharmacokinetics predict adverse drug reactions in women. Biol Sex Differ. 2020 Jun 5;11(1):32. doi: 10.1186/s13293-020-00308-5. PMID: 32503637; PMCID: PMC7275616.

https://news.uchicago.edu/story/women-are-overmedicated-because-drug-dosage-trials-are-done-men-study-finds

https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/behind-the-science-magazine/men-women-gender-diversity-clinical-trials/

@@RethinkingLife
Thank you for the links. As you say its been an issue for ages, but I assumed it had been resolved, naively.
I will be writing to Wes Streeting and copying in Peter Kyle Minister for Science adding the article and these links you have provided.
I really hope others do as well, as they are unlikely to listen to just one person.

This a huge fundamental issue, as big if not bigger that PB as it affects half the population of the world.
Its the ultimate in discrimination.
It should by rights be the major headline in the Guardian.

Male isn’t the default human. Female is.

I have noticed a drug testing company advertising for subjects who are men or post menopausal women. No inconvenient hormone cycles to deal with!

And yes, Invisible Women is an eye opening Read