King's Speech: gender identity conversion therapy

[southbiscay]

Apparently Labour are going to commit to a ban on gender identity conversion therapy in this years's legislative program. I think this is very bad news for all the reasons long rehearsed on this site. However I am sceptical that it will make much progress; it is such a flawed concept that surely it is going to be hard to write coherent legislation. With Hillary Cass in the Lords it will also be interesting to listen to that debate when it occurs. Maybe I'm being over optimistic, but I can't help feeling there's many a slip ...

The aim of civil servants and activists is for this to be badly worded and ambiguous.

There is no evidence for gender identity, and this is one of many attempts to enshrine the concept in law.

There will be (and have already been) test cases brought before judges to argue that talking therapy is conversion therapy. With many laws it is the threat of the law that will dissuade many therapists from talking therapy.

Banning trans conversion therapy is deeply homophobic, and shame on anyone who supports the ban.

Set out like this, it's GRA V2.0.

Yes this is the route I would get my spade out to support LGB alliance and Gay Men’s Network raising a legal challenge

Re: Talking therapy being seen as conversion therapy.

This was the head (?) of the BMA Tweeting against the “First Do No Harm “ conference earlier this year:

It is disappointing to see organisations fold to threats & feel forced to platform advocates of conversion practice. It is frustrating to see bullies using DARVO when attacking the healthcare of trans people. Remember our progress #LGBTplusHM Keep working #BanConversionTherapy

The fact that this doctor dismisses people like Professor Kaltiala, as being an advocate of conversion practices, shows you are right I think.

Prof. K. is Chief of Adolescent psychiatry in Finland, founder of one of the first adolescent gender clinics in Finland, and has seen at first hand what happens with the Dutch model they followed first of affirmation only, puberty blockers, and surgery.

That she now, after extensive research, advocates psychiatric interventions with a sympathetic, but non , affirmative wait and see approach with adolescents, should hardly be a reason for saying she advocates ‘conversion therapy’.

A spokesperson for the conference writes:
We refute in the strongest possible terms that we are, or in any way support, conversion therapists or practices. We view these accusations as defamatory, misplaced, irresponsible, and contrary to our growing body of work.

This was the head (?) of the BMA Tweeting against the “First Do No Harm “ conference earlier this year:

I assume this was dr emma runswick deputy chair of BMA who is a dyed in the wool TRA

The draft bill is here

publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-04/0022/230022.pdf

There are plenty of exceptions and caveats. Doesn't look too bad to me.

Yes, thank you, that’s right.

@turkeymuffin ... I agree... and admirable in its simplicity

What do others think??

"I think this is very bad news for all"

Most countries across W/Central mainland Europe went through with banning conversion therapy (yes, including for gender identity) many years ago and the sky somehow hasn't fell in yet.

That is the Loyd Russell bill from 2023 which failed.

I imagine the Labour bill will have more opt outs perhaps.

The Gay Man's Network pulled it apart and found loads of glaring issues with it.

Dennis Noel Kavanagh has lots of his timeline and on his blog explaining the problems.

You need legal expertise for this one.

Really - where is the carve out for someone exercising a safeguarding role such as required under KCSIE?

What does supplying materials cover? Would giving giving someone a copy of the Cass report and pointing out that it says there is no evidence for the benefit or safety of puberty blockers and that social transition is not a neutral act be caught?

There was a reason why this bill failed. Drafting legislation is horribly complex and when you have competing rights and duties even more so.

GIDS whistleblowers said that in some cases the parents of a trans child appeared to display homophobia. In that case, taking the child to a gender clinic was arguably a form of gay conversion therapy.

Is sanity coming North of the border (relatively speaking)?

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/22/swinney-poised-scrap-snp-conversion-therapy-ban/

https://archive.ph/4WD3W take the free road

I think they'll be trouble in them thar hills.

Perhaps Swinney has just bottled it. Has realised this legislation is impossible to write coherently so's letting Westminster have a crack at it. There's also the bitter dregs of the election and, perhaps, Kate Forbes' influence.

TBF if it's a Labour manifesto pledges, the sno no longer have to do anything as it would apply to Scotland too.

Even if you were committed to the concept, it's be stupid to draft something before Westminster in case it's contradictory. You'd let London do it for you then argue about how it does or doesn't go far enough.