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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Brighton Trans Pride = Teachers

47 replies

Treaclewell · 12/07/2024 19:24

Today I had an intrusion in my email from the NEU, of which I am a member. But no longer. Come Monday, when I have composed a better letter, I'm out.
They wrote.... Their highlights haven't come over, and I don't think they have predicted exactly what I found triggering.
-----------------------
The largest Trans Pride in the UK is taking place in Brighton on Saturday 20th July and now, more than ever, it is vital that Teachers and Support Staff stand up for our Trans students and colleagues.

Please note that the following text highlighted in yellow may be upsetting and triggering for some readers.
Those of you who remember Section 28 will feel like history is repeating itself, this time targeting the existence of Transgender and Non-Binary students and staff. From Keir Starmer announcing last week that he doesn’t want children to be able to learn about the existence of Trans people in schools, to saying that Trans women shouldn’t have the right to use women only spaces, we are facing a continuation of a major crackdown on Trans rights and the ability for us to protect our students. The terrifying Cass Review (which Yale law School and School of Medicine say 'obscures key findings' and 'misrepresents data’) to the Conservative Government’s draft guidance (which has been used by some as an excuse to limit the rights of Trans students despite this guidance still being under consultation), we are worried about the welfare of our Trans and Non-Binary students. Transgender and nonbinary young people face elevated risk for depression, thoughts of suicide, and attempting suicide compared to those who are cisgender and straight, including cisgender members of the LGBTQ+ community. Last February, transgender student Brianna Ghey was murdered and in October hate crimes against transgender people in the South East were recorded to be at their highest level in five years. 64% of trans students experience bullying at school, including from staff members.
This is why we are asking every NEU member in the South East Region to help us form the largest section of Teachers and Support Staff that any Trans Pride demonstration has ever seen, to tell the new Government that we support our trans students and colleagues and we will stand against any crackdowns on their rights.

If you would like to join your fellow NEU members in the largest Trans Pride march in Europe then please fill out this form here:

https://forms.office.com/e/AKsZDe5sx1

We look forward to seeing you on Saturday 20th July! Let’s help make 2024 the biggest year for Trans Pride Brighton yet - spread the word!

Find out more about Trans Pride Brighton here: Home - Trans Pride Brighton
From Graham, Heather and Hollie (LGBT+ Organising Forum and LGBT+ Brighton Officer)
[1] Keir Starmer opposes teaching young people about trans identities (thepinknews.com)
[1] Keir Starmer: Trans women 'don't have right' to use women-only spaces | The National
[1] Cass Review 'obscures key findings' and 'misrepresents data', finds Yale Law School (yahoo.com)
[1] Children Are Too Scared to Go to School Because of Transphobic Bullying (vice.com)
[1] Facts About Suicide Among LGBTQ+ Young People (thetrevorproject.org)
[1] Trans hate crime rises sharply in South East, figures show - BBC News
[1] Children Are Too Scared to Go to School Because of Transphobic Bullying (vice.com)

Keir Starmer says trans women 'don't have right' to use women-only spaces

KEIR Starmer has said that transgender women don’t have the right to use women-only spaces.

https://click.actionnetwork.org/ss/c/u001.XaF8mXqsA6b2dSPmhsleMW-eaCsSDaZf78QED8Lc01BdeIa9iR7JWamNF668kik25dHgfBKvrAJhlKXlVqYHIrj8YZNJOeWCyPOH4eff4NQXmrde0HLLrwJD8QxIER0Q0qRxLuQEZRtjf4HLRAAu1VWvaLaweviGJiORlrMDVwb26Wd-pwFr30YwZR630m1FMjtWZNFrwvgnezazO-qqDepAyoLf9F8JWM8iAlY35_mgNPRdgQnfgzcWBgTkLac7uYYWjQCpfJ-bPX8ejLlb-IvQqjuTB4cRtQUmLgaIZj-NCcwkvNKEcvciZqLlClD53CGbB4fIVGlUI7JOuYrY1P9PvSE3SioMHz9ynOG9irzUoTKIbDGhEVLLw6PL4BbU17WwfmMGKmTuwX7hJmQ4yg/47z/vtRT0M5VQumCHddTeKna_A/h3/h001.0dMFkccM8GqiqvuGzi-IQqWTfPuahAG_aq43wXJmwkY

OP posts:
MotherOfDragonflies · 16/07/2024 05:47

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 16/07/2024 04:30

i understand the point you are making, but this is a terrible argument! The GCSE course also teaches that humans can only have blue or brown eyes!😂

I think you’ve misunderstood GCSE science..

Beefcurtains79 · 16/07/2024 06:38

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 16/07/2024 04:30

i understand the point you are making, but this is a terrible argument! The GCSE course also teaches that humans can only have blue or brown eyes!😂

No they don’t? What on earth?

suggestionsplease1 · 16/07/2024 07:03

DuesToTheDirt · 14/07/2024 18:32

Of course it's unforgiveable for teenagers to murder teenagers.

It's also unforgiveable for Scarlet Blake to murder a random stranger, even if the victim was an adult. As for Fred West? Where does he come into it? Are you saying his crimes are understandable because he was an adult? Or because his victims were adults? (they weren't all, by the way). And why do you bring up Lucy Letby?

Anyway, a major flaw in your argument - Brianna was NOT murdered for being trans. Surely you know there was a list of 5 potential victims, and Brianna was 2nd on the list and the only one who was trans.

Oh, and Scarlet was placed in a men's prison.

I don't think you are keeping up with the facts.

I don't think you are keeping up with the facts.

The court did indeed rule that: "A secondary motive was hostility towards Ghey because of her transgender identity"

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/02/brianna-ghey-murderers-named-sentenced-to-life-in-prison

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 16/07/2024 07:14

@suggestionsplease1
Well yes, but that was ONE of the reasons that Ghey was on the ‘kill list’ of potential victims. Even the judge and the Graun were forced to acknowledge that it was not the main motive.

The child they really wanted to murder was a boy, identifying as a boy , who fancied other boys.

That sound you can hear is the bottom of the barrel being scraped.

GrammarTeacher · 16/07/2024 07:29

Grammarnut · 12/07/2024 20:08

I'm a retired member of NEU. I resent being told I stand with trans ideologues, rather than with actual women. I do not know how the NEU is unable to read to the room. Women are opposed to trans privileges because they remove the rights of women.

It is reading the room. The majority of the members are in favour of supporting our trans colleagues and students.

EdithStourton · 16/07/2024 08:06

@Kaleds
Scarlett's gender identity bore no semblance in the result of her crime, maybe apart from the prison she was placed in.
Scarlett's...HIS crime, actually. Ascribing male crimes to women buggers up the statistics.

And by 'bore no semblance in' I'm assuming you mean 'had no relevance to'. Words and their meanings matter for the clarity of understanding.

Valdor · 16/07/2024 09:11

VashtaNerada · 16/07/2024 04:44

It seems like a hugely divisive issue in the NEU at the moment. I wouldn’t leave though, it does so much good work and this is only a tiny part of it. I tend to pick and choose which issues to get involved with and if I don’t feel something is worth marching for I just don’t get involved.

By staying and not complaining you are tacitly supporting their stance

Valdor · 16/07/2024 09:13

GrammarTeacher · 16/07/2024 07:29

It is reading the room. The majority of the members are in favour of supporting our trans colleagues and students.

No the vocal people who bothered to vote are the ones you’re hearing nothing more. Any large enough poll consistently says this is a lot of old misogynistic bollocks

Grammarnut · 16/07/2024 10:10

GrammarTeacher · 16/07/2024 07:29

It is reading the room. The majority of the members are in favour of supporting our trans colleagues and students.

Some are ideologues, I think. Many teachers will be keeping their heads down - they've seen what happens to people who oppose the trans cult and want to keep their jobs.

Mind, one hell of a lot of primary teachers supported (still support) teaching reading using the 3 cueing system or 'whole word' and are still chuntering on about phonics being useless and putting children off reading. Trans ideologues have taken the citadel in primary schools; in that case: give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man (adjust to be non-sexist, it's the Jesuits).

Kaleds · 16/07/2024 14:53

DuesToTheDirt · 14/07/2024 18:32

Of course it's unforgiveable for teenagers to murder teenagers.

It's also unforgiveable for Scarlet Blake to murder a random stranger, even if the victim was an adult. As for Fred West? Where does he come into it? Are you saying his crimes are understandable because he was an adult? Or because his victims were adults? (they weren't all, by the way). And why do you bring up Lucy Letby?

Anyway, a major flaw in your argument - Brianna was NOT murdered for being trans. Surely you know there was a list of 5 potential victims, and Brianna was 2nd on the list and the only one who was trans.

Oh, and Scarlet was placed in a men's prison.

I don't think you are keeping up with the facts.

  1. It's the NEU, they've going to look at Brianna Ghey becuase she was a child and they are responsible for teachers in schools.
  2. The inetnion of the trial was never to prove the reason behind her murder just to prove a verdict, however going by the evidence it is undeniaby somewhat related to her gender.
  3. I was well aware that Scarlett was placed in a men's prison, it just had no relevence to the point I was making which was that the NEU used Brianna Ghey becuase she was a child.

I'm perfectly able to keep up with the facts thank you, and I'd be more than happy to send you links to articles proving everything that I've said :)

Grammarnut · 16/07/2024 15:34

No, @VashtaNerada , the NEU are not doing good work. They have consistently campaigned for the removal of the Year 1 phonics check (most especially removal of the 'alien names'). This check is the only defence against teachers who believe in 'balanced' literacy, i.e. that there are other cues than phonics that children can use to decode words. This was last around as the '3 cueing system' which suggested children could guess words from context, using the pictures (my copy of The Discourse Upon Method (Descartes) had only one picture, and it did not help with the text!) and finally analytic phonics as a last - and least useful - resort. This has led to 20% of children not being functioning readers. As long as the NEU supports this and the trans agenda they are not doing good work, they are advocating against children. (The NEU also supports the 'skills curriculum', another can of worms that de-educates.)

AlexaAdventuress · 16/07/2024 16:03

Grammarnut · 16/07/2024 15:34

No, @VashtaNerada , the NEU are not doing good work. They have consistently campaigned for the removal of the Year 1 phonics check (most especially removal of the 'alien names'). This check is the only defence against teachers who believe in 'balanced' literacy, i.e. that there are other cues than phonics that children can use to decode words. This was last around as the '3 cueing system' which suggested children could guess words from context, using the pictures (my copy of The Discourse Upon Method (Descartes) had only one picture, and it did not help with the text!) and finally analytic phonics as a last - and least useful - resort. This has led to 20% of children not being functioning readers. As long as the NEU supports this and the trans agenda they are not doing good work, they are advocating against children. (The NEU also supports the 'skills curriculum', another can of worms that de-educates.)

You must have been to a very fancy primary school if Discourse upon Method was on the curriculum in year 1. No wonder you're so clever!

Kaleds · 16/07/2024 16:38

VashtaNerada · 16/07/2024 04:44

It seems like a hugely divisive issue in the NEU at the moment. I wouldn’t leave though, it does so much good work and this is only a tiny part of it. I tend to pick and choose which issues to get involved with and if I don’t feel something is worth marching for I just don’t get involved.

I love the username!

Kaleds · 16/07/2024 16:52

Runor · 12/07/2024 22:29

“From Graham, Heather and Hollie”

Men first, always!

In fairness to them, that's in alphabetical order

TerrifiedandWorried · 16/07/2024 16:58

Which union can I join instead? Pastoral support not teaching staff if that makes any difference

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 16/07/2024 17:05

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 16/07/2024 04:30

i understand the point you are making, but this is a terrible argument! The GCSE course also teaches that humans can only have blue or brown eyes!😂

The GCSE spec teaches that eye colour has multiple gene loci, and should reference blue and "pigmented" eyes. Yes, this is sometimes simplified to blue and brown.

It also covers several DSDs, and explains that each person with a DSD is one sex or the other, with a disorder that can cause significant health issues.

Grammarnut · 16/07/2024 21:02

AlexaAdventuress · 16/07/2024 16:03

You must have been to a very fancy primary school if Discourse upon Method was on the curriculum in year 1. No wonder you're so clever!

Of course, Discourse upon Method was not on my primary school reading list, it had Janet and John - the books used look and say, but the teacher (dear Miss Morgan, she married a vicar) was teaching phonics with cards. I could already read so was given a primer to read during the lesson (a pity, I feel). My point was that teaching children to use pictures as cues to the text is a time-limited strategy. As children get older books get longer, and there are far fewer pictures, and most of those tell you very little about the nearby text. In other words, it was a joke, but a pertinent one. (My copy of the Discourse was dual-text, in fact, in French and English, did my French a bit of good - I had meant to use Wittgenstein's Tractatus as my example, but couldn't remember if my copy had any pictures.)

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 16/07/2024 23:31

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 16/07/2024 17:05

The GCSE spec teaches that eye colour has multiple gene loci, and should reference blue and "pigmented" eyes. Yes, this is sometimes simplified to blue and brown.

It also covers several DSDs, and explains that each person with a DSD is one sex or the other, with a disorder that can cause significant health issues.

not all of them - edexcel simplifies eye colour to B and b and sex to XX/XY with no reference to DSD at all, so does iGCSE (I havent taught AQA so cant comment on that). They only reference specific polygenetic traits in the context of height/weight and sometimes outline other examples in exam qs

I understand why they have simplified it, my point was more that of all the arguments for the post to present i think this one is weak lol

AlexaAdventuress · 17/07/2024 08:13

I'm joking of course @Grammarnut It's a long time since I read any Wittgenstein in the original, but I don't remember it being what you might call 'lavishly illustrated'.

Thinking back to my schooldays, the example given of eye colour was blue and brown, and other colours weren't mentioned. But looking around the room at the various colours of people's eyes it was pretty obvious that the picture had to be more complicated than that, even at the age of 14.

PorcelinaV · 17/07/2024 09:19

GrammarTeacher · 16/07/2024 07:29

It is reading the room. The majority of the members are in favour of supporting our trans colleagues and students.

I would be interested to see the polling of members that specifies something like, "should anyone that identifies as a woman be allowed into the women’s changing rooms etc.?".

Even let's imagine that a majority of union members support that, say 60% support, should the union get involved?

You could argue that they would be standing up for the rights of their trans workers; but you could also argue that they would be undermining the rights and privacy of their female workers.

Grammarnut · 17/07/2024 09:53

AlexaAdventuress · 17/07/2024 08:13

I'm joking of course @Grammarnut It's a long time since I read any Wittgenstein in the original, but I don't remember it being what you might call 'lavishly illustrated'.

Thinking back to my schooldays, the example given of eye colour was blue and brown, and other colours weren't mentioned. But looking around the room at the various colours of people's eyes it was pretty obvious that the picture had to be more complicated than that, even at the age of 14.

I think my copy had a picture of Wittgenstein in a flying helmet. As to eye colour, blue or brown tended to be used in biology rather than unpigmented (blueish) and pigmented (brownish?). Simplified. Inheritance of eye colour is also more complex than GCSE biology suggests.

lcakethereforeIam · 17/07/2024 11:58

This school is in Hackney not Brighton but I didn't want to start a new thread

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/17/rosie-duffield-primary-school-trans-inclusive-flag/

https://archive.ph/Vn53o bypass paywall but not decency or common sense

These are very young children. In the original photo published by the school their faces weren't blurred. Worse, for me, is the sign 'I can't even think straight' a child was given to hold. It reminded me of babies being given inappropriately shaped lollies to suck and it being posted on SM for the 'adults' to laugh at. Or, even, those Balenciaga ads with the bondage teddy bears. If my child went to this school I'd be absolutely incandescent.

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