Prescribing of Testosterone for middle aged women out of control The Guardian

[Runskiyoga]

Experts warn of long term health implications. As in prescribing being ahead of or outside the available evidence. I wonder if they know about the young women 😞www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/05/prescribing-of-testosterone-for-middle-aged-women-out-of-control?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I have no doubt that strength training is helpful but it’s really bloody hard to get started if one of your first/worst perimeno symptoms are joint related!

Yes 100%

I had to ditch the hrt because of the cancer. And all I had then was a cancer book and Liz o riordan telling me I must exercise. I followed the cancer exercise book which was a really well paced every other day simple work out. It wasn't heavy or taxing, you have to walk fast for half an hour daily too. I followed it to the T along side what that book said about protein. 30g each meal (too much for me really.)

I then moved on to Sim's advice which is eating within half an hour of a work out as I slowly increased the weights up. I was doing some other bits here and there like swimming. Star jumps here and there. Planks. Down ward dog. I couldn't run as my joints and feet were too bad. But I can now! I haven't got into that but am intending to in the next few months.

And with no hrt. Periods seem to be stopping; I now get one every 40-50 days.

I had very bad arthralgia with peri. Hrt helped a bit but not always. The walking (which I did far more of than the book said) and lifting seemed to build strength across my whole body.

It wasn't over night though. Took months to slowly build up.

In some women the symptoms can be so severe that it's effectively the same as an illness. Some can't live a normal life because of the symptoms.

Interesting article on the effects of testosterone on East German athletes:

History’s most ruthless doping programme — and the women who paid the price

www.thetimes.com/article/f83073e2-3057-4ba5-ad02-30bb644e6acb?shareToken=aad9b63160d4ed48881a6e614e2866cd

Well, my asthma is also natural, I guess, but I sure do appreciate the unnatural drugs that helped me to breathe.

Menopause is indeed a stage of life. It's a stage of life that results in a significant loss of bone density (because of the depletion of oestrogen) and therefore leads to roughly 11,000 women a year dying from hip fractures caused by osteoporosis.

So it doesn't matter whether you call it an illness or not, it still leads to women dying unnecessarily.

Leaving aside the hormones in the environment and thinking about hormones we deliberately injected, I do idly wonder if perimenopause/menopause is, on average, objectively different for women who have had 5-30 years worth of hormonal birth control/taken specific types of synthetic hormones as BC?

My mum went on the (early form of combined?) pill when she got married in ‘68 age 18, I was on depo provera (synthetic progestin) the same age 25 years later.
My maternal gran didn’t have BC or HRT because it just wasn’t a thing when she was in those life stages (she did have a 20+ year co proxamol addiction unquestionably facilitated by her GP tho, so that’s a variable that I wouldn’t want to replicate!)

I’d love to be able to ask them about their experiences but sadly, the nature of middle age/menopause makes comparing notes with grandma unlikely if not impossible (unlike menarche, when mum & gran are often still around).

Probably won’t be any official answers in my lifetime (if the pharmaceutical industry aren’t even motivated to get testosterone licensed for women and into small-dose dispense containers!)

Are you taking or have you ever taken hormonal birth control?

I didn’t. I’m progesterone intolerant and couldn’t take oestrogen based contraceptives due to migraine. The migraines were bad in perimenopause, but now post-menopausal and the migraines are worse than ever. It used to be a few days once a month, now they’re constant.

So, help me understand:

”Most hormonal supplementation is in response to our own self poisoning and poor lifestyle, or societal conditioning rather than in anyway necessary.“

You were born with progesterone intolerance, which caused you to have hormone related migraines throughout your life, worsening with menopause.

Isn’t this irrelevant to the above comment as you don’t and cannot ever take any hormonal supplements?

And there I was, thinking it was the prescription of mega-doses of testosterone to young women who demand it due to advice they've read on social media that was really out of control.

Well silly me.

No, the progesterone intolerance didn’t cause the migraines. Synthetic progesterone makes me very depressed and anxious. I couldn’t take the oestrogen only pill because I have a history of migraine. It wasn’t an issue as ExH had a vasectomy in our early 20s, and my now DH had had had a vasectomy when we met. I was merely making the point that I had never “poisoned myself” with hormones so the current hormonal problems I have cannot be attributed to that. Women should not be blamed to menopause difficulties, especially by other women.

ETA: I am actually now on a very carefully managed HRT regime, but there’s a fine line between very low oestrogen (and constant migraine) and high oestrogen (same problem).

Oh, got it! Thank you for explaining. I see your point now & agree with it.

Could you point me to some easy-to-follow-with-brain-fog workouts, or somewhere I can get more information about the stuff in your last paragraph? I haven't seen any particular benefits with HRT personally, so looking for an alternative approach.

ETA: I've now RTFT and seen your responses to others already expanding on this, thank you.

I'm sure you noted I said most.
A word that infers, not all.
Furthemore, most hormone issues in women are affected by diet and toxic overload of the liver. Which is why pmt perimenopause menopause are so affected by diet, sugar alcohol bad fats excess carbs poisons plastics etc
Its the concept of mind /body separation [the basis of trans ideology] and over specialisation that allows us to think that a symptom is only localised and separate from our habits.

Furthemore, most hormone issues in women are affected by diet and toxic overload of the liver. Which is why pmt perimenopause menopause are so affected by diet, sugar alcohol bad fats excess carbs poisons plastics etc
Its the concept of mind /body separation [the basis of trans ideology] and over specialisation that allows us to think that a symptom is only localised and separate from our habits.

The word menopause, and connecting the symptoms with periods and fertility ending, predates HRT by over 100y. Predates the Industrial Revolution. Predates trans ideology.

I did indeed note your use of the word "most" but I'm not sure it makes a huge difference here tbh. I think we can all grasp the concept of a healthy lifestyle and all its benefits, but the perimenopause is the result of the female body nearing the end of its fertile years.

I still think that your assertion that Most hormonal supplementation is in response to our own self poisoning and poor lifestyle, or societal conditioning rather than in anyway necessary

...is utter tosh.

As I do about your ignorant and rude dismissal.
Meanwhile Japanese women have far less if any menopausal symptoms certainly until they adopted a western diet.
Nor is it seen as a situation that needs medicalising but a time of freedom and rejuvenation.
And currently we are all poisoned by forever chemicals, pesticides and micro plastics - or do you imagine you are immune?

That's been attributed to a high intake of soy, which contains plant estrogens which mimic human estrogen. So in effect, Japanese women are on HRT.
However, you are right in that these things you mention are factors.

Physiologically, eating phytoestrogens is not similar to taking pharmaceutical grade estrogen and progesterone. So, no everyone (men, women and children) who eat soy are not “in effect” on HRT. 🫤

Interesting thread. But have no personal experience to contribut.

But just to say I started reading it because I thought is was about middle aged women who are "out of control" being drugged.

When I could think was where can I meet these women?

Or is that the role of FWR?

Actually, estrogen receptors treat them as if they are estrogen. However, since the body can't absorb them well, it takes a very high intake to see any effect.

@SoundTheSirens can also thoroughly recommend the Fitr woman app which is free and uses sports science info.

I've hit a fatigue wall after a period. I logged the symptoms and activity I've done over the last few days and it gave me firm instructions on how I should have been eating (I know I didn't eat well for what I was doing - I pushed myself) and several recipes. It reminded me to eat a decent amount of carbs and protein before and after a heavy session which I didn't do.

Also Katie Rowe Ham's book, a 30 day resistance training plan which has qr codes to videos and sets it all out very clearly.

‘Menopause is just a life stage’ is the same patriarchal claptrap that dismisses women’s health issues as being hysterical, denies women adequate pain relief and means women’s health is under researched. The same which has women suffering for years from endometriosis or dysmenorrhea. The same which fails to listen to women in labour and causes hundreds of thousands of birth injuries every year.

It is simply another dismissal of women.

Depends, some phytoestrogens, soy included, can block estrogen receptors and have an anti-estrogenic effect. It’s pretty much a myth that soy acts like estrogen and eating soy is being “effectively on HRT”

Dairy products provide us with far more dietary estrogen intake and no one would say drink a glass of milk- there’s your HRT.

https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/health/food-and-nutrition/debunking-the-soy-estrogen-problem-and-other-soy-myths/