Is it ok to say 'effeminate'?

[SnugglyJumpersMakeItBetter]

Back in the day we'd say 'camp', but I'm thinking that's probably not PC now? Can you still use 'effeminate'? What would be the best term to use?

https://www.instagram.com/lordmaclean/?hl=en
John Maclean describes himself as a feminine man. The issue with effeminate is that they are "trying to be a like a woman" and are "unlike men" but, assuming you are gender critical, we know that masculinity and femininity are personality traits so a feminine is behaving like a man, man can behave however they feel or want. I think this is right but very happy to be corrected.

I would use feminine.

I think it’s fine! But then I don’t reject the notion of femininity or masculinity

This might be better, depending on what you mean of course. Effeminate has always been pejorative AFAIK, although I don't think it's a slur that needs to be banned.

Funny, I was just thinking "effeminate" when this thread popped up! In the context of why I don't much like modern countertenors, who pp were enthusing about on another thread. I didn't say anything though!

Do you feel differently about non-modern countertenors, are they different?

It's a different sound. Men with naturally very high tenor voices, as opposed to falsettists. Either could qualify as effeminate I suppose, but a natural countertenor singing in full voice has arguably a more "virile" sound than the necessarily constricted, underpowered sound of a falsettist.

Compare the late Richard Jose for example (recordings on Youtube) with any of the modern crop of countertenors. It's not the same voice type at all. (Sorry for the thread highjack).

Hmm, the only countertenor I have listened to much is one that sings in my church choir, and I think he is a natural high tenor, rather than a sort of bee gees wannabe.

I'll have to do some listening and see.

I don't comment on this board much but I'd never heard of the late Richard Jose, so I just listened on Youtube as suggested above. No, I do not like his voice more than modern countertenors, if you mean the ones who sing with, for example, groups like the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. I think their voices are beautiful.

And to answer the first question, the word effeminate is regarded as derogatory.

I am not sure why you feel the need to give anyone a term?

You mean like TERF and cis?

No, it's just reinforcing sex based stereotypes. If the person is outgoing, flamboyant, dramatic then say that or just use their name.

Yes. It's all a load of regressive shit.

Use a word that describes what you mean without reference to stereotypes.

People can love fashion, be eccentric, enjoy experimenting with makeup etc.

If it's about the voice, I think that's harder. But then I find certain accents very camp, when the men in question seem to be straight.

You could describe that as theatrical or luvvy perhaps.

Yes.

The word effeminate manages to be insulting to men and women.