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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Trans Activists have infiltrated the NHS'

47 replies

lcakethereforeIam · 22/06/2024 15:21

Article in the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/trans-activists-have-infiltrated-the-nhs/

https://archive.ph/Is1zs paywall dodge

In the headline 'infiltrated' is correctly in quotation marks. I agree that it's not the right word because it implies a degree of stealth which has been conspicuously lacking. They're very open about their intentions.

Trans activists have ‘infiltrated’ the NHS

Lobbying group TransActual ‘campaigns for cervical screening, but want men in with women when it suits them’, say sources

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/trans-activists-have-infiltrated-the-nhs

OP posts:
Laidbackguy · 25/06/2024 22:24

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 24/06/2024 20:34

I think this laid back guy is telling us that feminists have captured the corporate world

after the secret feminist takeover this one is not to be included in the breeding farm. we don't need more of this in the gene pool

I think vitriolic extremists have shouted so loudly and viciously attacked anyone who contradicted them that people on positions of authority bent to their strange, unfounded view on society. The LGBTQ+ community have copied this play book and out sone the shouty feminists at their own game.

The way women aren’t allowed to question men using their toilets without being transphobic today is exactly the same strategy feminists used in shouting down any guy who had an opinion which differed from theirs.

Circumferences · 25/06/2024 23:22

Gotcha.

Men oppress women for millennia.

Women fight against patriarchy using activism.

Men fight back against feminism using activism.

It's all feminists fault 👍

Datun · 26/06/2024 03:42

Circumferences · 25/06/2024 23:22

Gotcha.

Men oppress women for millennia.

Women fight against patriarchy using activism.

Men fight back against feminism using activism.

It's all feminists fault 👍

Yep. There's a reason it's number one in the rules of misogyny.

labamba007 · 26/06/2024 06:00

Laidbackguy · 22/06/2024 17:48

From an outsiders point of view the trans movement have taken the playbook feminists have a used against men and recycled most of the same ideas.

TRAs have used more typically male methods of 'activism' than female methods.

  • violence - just look at many women's groups and gatherings on this subject and men in face coverings are there hurling abuse or being physically abusive towards them.
  • rape threats - openly gender critical women receive death and rape threats
  • sexual harassment - particularly of lesbians who do not wish to have sex with a trans woman

TRAs use various methods to achieve their goals. I wouldn't say they are following a feminist playbook.

BreatheAndFocus · 26/06/2024 06:42

The way women aren’t allowed to question men using their toilets without being transphobic today is exactly the same strategy feminists used in shouting down any guy who had an opinion which differed from theirs

I’m a bit tired of seeing this lie everywhere. On Twitter, large numbers of men say that women brought this gender ideology on themselves - which is completely untrue because GI is the opposite of feminism.

Women have been the oppressed class for centuries - oppressed by men. Then gradually we’ve gained some rights (in some countries at least) and that makes men angry. Now our rights are being threatened and we’re rightly annoyed - but it’s all our fault for getting uppity and demanding rights in the first place?

No, it’s the fault of men - men who can’t bear for women to have anything for themselves; men who see women as inferior human beings or barely human, more like service robots there for men to make use of; men of all political persuasions who seethe inside at the fact society is treating us more as equal human beings.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/06/2024 07:34

Laidbackguy · 25/06/2024 22:24

I think vitriolic extremists have shouted so loudly and viciously attacked anyone who contradicted them that people on positions of authority bent to their strange, unfounded view on society. The LGBTQ+ community have copied this play book and out sone the shouty feminists at their own game.

The way women aren’t allowed to question men using their toilets without being transphobic today is exactly the same strategy feminists used in shouting down any guy who had an opinion which differed from theirs.

Grin Grin Grin

'strange, unfounded view on society'

things like wanting equal pay for equal work, not to have your arse touched at work, that kind of thing?

yeah I can totally see now why absolutely everything is feminist's fault. thank god you came by to open my eyes

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 26/06/2024 08:11

Laidbackguy · 24/06/2024 19:56

Who do you think created all the positive discrimination if it wasn’t the old boys network?

I work in engineering, 95% of engineering graduates are male. Most blue chip companies have quotas to employ 50% female engineers by X. There weren’t any women there in the first place. It’s just managers being scared share holders will get upset if they’re not seen to be tipping their hat to diversity - even if that is detrimental to the quality of hires.

I can't believe after the last line in this comment that anyone is engaging at all

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 12:51

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 26/06/2024 08:11

I can't believe after the last line in this comment that anyone is engaging at all

You read my mind 👍😬

AlisonDonut · 26/06/2024 13:05

Laidbackguy · 24/06/2024 19:56

Who do you think created all the positive discrimination if it wasn’t the old boys network?

I work in engineering, 95% of engineering graduates are male. Most blue chip companies have quotas to employ 50% female engineers by X. There weren’t any women there in the first place. It’s just managers being scared share holders will get upset if they’re not seen to be tipping their hat to diversity - even if that is detrimental to the quality of hires.

I worked in Civil Engineering and when I went off sick in the 90s for a month they hired 3 men to replace me.

Laidbackguy · 27/06/2024 22:51

AlisonDonut · 26/06/2024 13:05

I worked in Civil Engineering and when I went off sick in the 90s for a month they hired 3 men to replace me.

Sounds like a factual account.

Laidbackguy · 27/06/2024 22:59

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/06/2024 07:34

Grin Grin Grin

'strange, unfounded view on society'

things like wanting equal pay for equal work, not to have your arse touched at work, that kind of thing?

yeah I can totally see now why absolutely everything is feminist's fault. thank god you came by to open my eyes

Surely in 2024 we have to admit that the gender pay gap is nonsense. It’s a multi variant problem that fins it’s tried to pin a uni variant answer to.

  1. Women on average spend 20% less time doing paid work than men.
  2. Most dangerous are almost exclusively male employees. To get people to do more dangerous jobs you have to pay more.
  3. Jobs that involve being out in the cold / wet for large parts of the year - again mainly men.
  4. Women choose less scalable jobs, men tend to be car mechanics, work in construction or other trades. These are jobs you can easily grow a small company doing. Women tend to be nurses, teachers, work in admin etc, the options for making more form these are limited.
  5. Men are less agreeable so tend to ask for pay rises or fight for better T&C’s.

The gender pay gap falls flat immediately when you ask - if women will do the same job for 15% less. Why would anyone employ men?

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/06/2024 23:51
LessMeek · 28/06/2024 00:06

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 26/06/2024 08:11

I can't believe after the last line in this comment that anyone is engaging at all

Quite. Anyone whose argument rests on the trope of a "playbook" has clearly spent so long in the manosphere that toxic by-products have built up.

LessMeek · 28/06/2024 00:11

Laidbackguy · 27/06/2024 22:59

Surely in 2024 we have to admit that the gender pay gap is nonsense. It’s a multi variant problem that fins it’s tried to pin a uni variant answer to.

  1. Women on average spend 20% less time doing paid work than men.
  2. Most dangerous are almost exclusively male employees. To get people to do more dangerous jobs you have to pay more.
  3. Jobs that involve being out in the cold / wet for large parts of the year - again mainly men.
  4. Women choose less scalable jobs, men tend to be car mechanics, work in construction or other trades. These are jobs you can easily grow a small company doing. Women tend to be nurses, teachers, work in admin etc, the options for making more form these are limited.
  5. Men are less agreeable so tend to ask for pay rises or fight for better T&C’s.

The gender pay gap falls flat immediately when you ask - if women will do the same job for 15% less. Why would anyone employ men?

Edited

The big question here is if you believe you're having original thoughts and that this is a well constructed argument, or if you just blindly paraphrase from Reddit thinking it makes you look clever.

AllTipAndNoIceberg · 28/06/2024 00:38

Lbg = Brent from season 4 of The Good Place

AlisonDonut · 28/06/2024 03:11

Laidbackguy · 27/06/2024 22:51

Sounds like a factual account.

So when we bring our 'lived experience' to the table we are lying?

Because all women lie right?

Laidbackguy · 28/06/2024 06:49

LessMeek · 28/06/2024 00:11

The big question here is if you believe you're having original thoughts and that this is a well constructed argument, or if you just blindly paraphrase from Reddit thinking it makes you look clever.

That’s a fairly typical response, it differs from your opinion so you choose to insult me. Why not explain which bit is wrong?

You can argue that men do a lot less unpaid work, but that’s for you and the person you’ve chosen to share your life with to argue about.

SquirrelSoShiny · 28/06/2024 07:08

Laidbackguy · 27/06/2024 22:59

Surely in 2024 we have to admit that the gender pay gap is nonsense. It’s a multi variant problem that fins it’s tried to pin a uni variant answer to.

  1. Women on average spend 20% less time doing paid work than men.
  2. Most dangerous are almost exclusively male employees. To get people to do more dangerous jobs you have to pay more.
  3. Jobs that involve being out in the cold / wet for large parts of the year - again mainly men.
  4. Women choose less scalable jobs, men tend to be car mechanics, work in construction or other trades. These are jobs you can easily grow a small company doing. Women tend to be nurses, teachers, work in admin etc, the options for making more form these are limited.
  5. Men are less agreeable so tend to ask for pay rises or fight for better T&C’s.

The gender pay gap falls flat immediately when you ask - if women will do the same job for 15% less. Why would anyone employ men?

Edited

Is your entire life spent parroting Jordan Peterson verbatim? Or only when you're on Mumsnet?

Laidbackguy · 28/06/2024 07:25

BreatheAndFocus · 26/06/2024 06:42

The way women aren’t allowed to question men using their toilets without being transphobic today is exactly the same strategy feminists used in shouting down any guy who had an opinion which differed from theirs

I’m a bit tired of seeing this lie everywhere. On Twitter, large numbers of men say that women brought this gender ideology on themselves - which is completely untrue because GI is the opposite of feminism.

Women have been the oppressed class for centuries - oppressed by men. Then gradually we’ve gained some rights (in some countries at least) and that makes men angry. Now our rights are being threatened and we’re rightly annoyed - but it’s all our fault for getting uppity and demanding rights in the first place?

No, it’s the fault of men - men who can’t bear for women to have anything for themselves; men who see women as inferior human beings or barely human, more like service robots there for men to make use of; men of all political persuasions who seethe inside at the fact society is treating us more as equal human beings.

Historically life has been very tough for everyone apart from a wealthy elite. I don’t know where this idea that men somehow had an easy time has come to be and I’ve never seen any actual evidence of it.

It was only after men cam back from being killed and maimed that we got the Representation of the People act in 1918. Before this only about 8% of men and no women had the right to vote. If you go back a hand red years this figure was significantly lower again.

The Ukraine war is a good example or selective feminism. Where are the women campaigning that they should be barred from leaving the country and forced to fight like almost all men are?

Laidbackguy · 28/06/2024 07:26

SquirrelSoShiny · 28/06/2024 07:08

Is your entire life spent parroting Jordan Peterson verbatim? Or only when you're on Mumsnet?

Why don’t you explain which bits wrong?

LessMeek · 28/06/2024 07:27

Laidbackguy · 28/06/2024 06:49

That’s a fairly typical response, it differs from your opinion so you choose to insult me. Why not explain which bit is wrong?

You can argue that men do a lot less unpaid work, but that’s for you and the person you’ve chosen to share your life with to argue about.

We all know men who come into these discussions with these overly simplistic and wildly oblivious points. We all know how it goes when their lack of empathy, insight, and ability to understand nuance, alongside their bullish desire to cling to their own, sense of rightness, means that any attempt to explain anything puts you on a road to nowhere. Personally, I just cba anymore.

As a small example - you are making an assumption that any woman who argues about a systemic issue, such as men's failure to take on unpaid work, means they are talking about their relationship with their partner, and that the solution to the problem is to address only their own circumstance. Well, 1) we can talk about things more broadly, even gasp if our own circumstances don't fit that description, because we see these issues causing problems for women more broadly and care about that, and 2) feminist solutions need to be systemic because the fundamental problems causing them are systemic.

Empathy, insight, and ability to understand nuance. Until you get these no amount of 'explaining where you're wrong' is going to make the tiniest bit of difference. These arguments are so tired, and the intention seems to be to just wear us down until we agree with you. Know this: silence does not equal agreement.

Laidbackguy · 28/06/2024 07:58

LessMeek · 28/06/2024 07:27

We all know men who come into these discussions with these overly simplistic and wildly oblivious points. We all know how it goes when their lack of empathy, insight, and ability to understand nuance, alongside their bullish desire to cling to their own, sense of rightness, means that any attempt to explain anything puts you on a road to nowhere. Personally, I just cba anymore.

As a small example - you are making an assumption that any woman who argues about a systemic issue, such as men's failure to take on unpaid work, means they are talking about their relationship with their partner, and that the solution to the problem is to address only their own circumstance. Well, 1) we can talk about things more broadly, even gasp if our own circumstances don't fit that description, because we see these issues causing problems for women more broadly and care about that, and 2) feminist solutions need to be systemic because the fundamental problems causing them are systemic.

Empathy, insight, and ability to understand nuance. Until you get these no amount of 'explaining where you're wrong' is going to make the tiniest bit of difference. These arguments are so tired, and the intention seems to be to just wear us down until we agree with you. Know this: silence does not equal agreement.

So you’re saying you’re cross because in some couples women put family life ahead of work?

There’s as much evidence men having to do 20% more paid work is a systemic issues based on misandry.

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