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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The weaponisation of 'kind'

12 replies

RoyalCorgi · 21/06/2024 14:15

I was interested in an opinion article by Dr Rachel Clarke in the Guardian. It's about physician associates - people who have had about two years' medical training but are increasingly taking the place of doctors. Very often, the NHS tries to mislead people into thinking they really are doctors, which sometimes has serious consequences.

Dr Clarke notes that when doctors (the real kind) complain about this, they are accused of being unkind:

"On social media, they thanked those doctors who had shown “care and compassion” when giving feedback. In so doing, it deployed a tactic increasingly used to try to silence frontline staff when we warn the public of the potential risks of addressing NHS workforce gaps by replacing highly trained doctors or nurses with less well trained (and cheaper) doctor or nurse substitutes. This tactic is to deploy kindness as a weapon, as a means of shutting up critics."

I suppose this is another example of "People are who they say they are, and it's mean and nasty to point out that they aren't." The parallels with a certain other ideology are obvious.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/20/physician-doctor-reckless-experiment-nhs-associates

x.com

https://x.com/ActAsOneBDC/status/1802320308411494889

OP posts:
UtopiaPlanitia · 21/06/2024 14:42

I’d love to know where this insistence on kindness over truthfulness all started. It’s definitely a hinderance in professional and legal settings to give feelings equal or more importance than facts. I prefer an emphasis on competence over protecting hurt feelings. I think it’s perfectly possible for people to get along well in a workplace setting by being polite and professional rather than prioritising kindness.

AnonMedic · 21/06/2024 14:56

I've name changed for this.

Some of us have been talking for some time about the similarities between the PA issue and the issue of consent when the sex of the doctor doing an intimate examination is not disclosed. If you search Twitter/X you will find posts from doctors saying that if a patient consents to an intimate exam they think will be done by a doctor, and it is done by a PA who doesn't say that they are a PA and not a doctor, then the consent is invalid. Then there is the language of kindness, the accusations of bullying made of those raising concerns, the claims of PAs being driven away, the concern about PA mental health, the need to shut down a "toxic" debate. It is remarkably similar to another "toxic" debate...

If doctors think an intimate exam being done by a PA -when the patient thinks it is being done by a doctor - vitiates consent, surely an exam being done by someone of the male sex when the patient believes it is being done by someone of the female sex vitiates consent?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/06/2024 15:04

Isn't it interesting that "be kind" seems to be used when someone wants to erode someone else's boundaries? Do something selfish and in their own interest rather than centring others?

Maybe now the #nodebate bullying tactic is dead, we're being drowned in coercive "be kind and sacrifice your own boundaries /rights /needs" ? By the same people. 😑

LakeTiticaca · 21/06/2024 15:17

A close family member of mine is a physician associate and she had 5 years at uni. If she wants to become a junior doctor she needs to go back to uni for a further 2 years
Don't believe everything you are told

AnonMedic · 21/06/2024 15:55

LakeTiticaca · 21/06/2024 15:17

A close family member of mine is a physician associate and she had 5 years at uni. If she wants to become a junior doctor she needs to go back to uni for a further 2 years
Don't believe everything you are told

There is no route to becoming a doctor in the UK other than via medical school. This would be 4 years on a graduate entry programme, or 5 on a standard programme.

Previous professional experience makes no difference to this - it is the same for dentists who wish to become max fac surgeons, the same for PAs, the same for any other health professional. There is no curriculum overlap and no buyout. All of those becoming doctors after being other healthcare professionals have to do 4 or 5 years of medical school.

It's absolutely the case that most PAs have 5 years or more of university behind them: 3 as an undergraduate, 2 on the PA MSc. This makes no difference to the fact that they would need to do the 4 or 5 year programme to become a doctor if that's what they wish. The 2 year PA MSc is not "medical school", and 3 years of non-medical undergrad plus 2 years of PA MSc is not the same as a primary medical qualification, even if it takes the same in calendar years. The fact remains that PAs have only 2 years academic training.

(I don't doubt that some PAs are excellent. Unfortunately the role is poorly defined and unregulated, and training is of highly variable quality. This means that however good the intentions, PAs may be a risk to patient safety. See for example the results of recent surveys by the BMA, RCP, RCGP. This is about safety, it's not about being unkind to PAs - who are welcome to apply to medical school if they wish to be doctors, or must otherwise accept a work plan that is agreed with the medically qualified person taking responsibility for them. I have a lot of sympathy for those PAs who feel they have been sold a "professional role" that doesn't exist. Many of those responsible for the mess have resigned, and some are facing legal action - for example, a group of doctors are crowd funding to sue the GMC over the PA situation.)

Pudmyboy · 21/06/2024 16:48

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/06/2024 15:04

Isn't it interesting that "be kind" seems to be used when someone wants to erode someone else's boundaries? Do something selfish and in their own interest rather than centring others?

Maybe now the #nodebate bullying tactic is dead, we're being drowned in coercive "be kind and sacrifice your own boundaries /rights /needs" ? By the same people. 😑

Absolutely agree with this!

lcakethereforeIam · 21/06/2024 21:59

I had a look at this thread yesterday and watched the film posted by the young American woman.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5099914-why-i-left-the-left-kiyah-willis?latest=1

She spoke very lucidly about where she is now and how she got there. She was woke and identified as nonbinary. This thread reminded me of her because, during her woke phase, she and those about her were absolutely terrified of causing offence, were hyper vigilant in policing they/themselves and everyone around them.

It's the flip side of 'be kind'. Or possibly even its twin.

There was another article I read (and started a thread on) called 'Leaving Kindland'. Well worth a read.

Why I Left the Left - Kiyah Willis | Mumsnet

I found this video / blog post interesting. Her story as a young woman touches on a number of related issues, but what's fascinating is that her perso...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5099914-why-i-left-the-left-kiyah-willis?latest=1

PorcelinaV · 22/06/2024 15:33

Speaking generally, the issues with appeals to kindness seem to be:

Question-begging that a particular side is correct and there can't be validity in an alternative position; and then therefore the demonisation of opponents with the implication that they are just being meanies.

There is also (?) maybe an imbalance in play where compassion or openness or acceptance are being idolised at the expense of other reasonable principles.

WarriorN · 22/06/2024 16:31

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/06/2024 15:04

Isn't it interesting that "be kind" seems to be used when someone wants to erode someone else's boundaries? Do something selfish and in their own interest rather than centring others?

Maybe now the #nodebate bullying tactic is dead, we're being drowned in coercive "be kind and sacrifice your own boundaries /rights /needs" ? By the same people. 😑

Spot on as usual Mrs O.

The OP describes an issue with culture which is anti safeguarding.

The Drs querying the decisions are being socially coerced to keep quiet.

This abusive tactic should be called out in any context where it is used to shut down questions, especially about safety and appropriateness.

Rippledipple · 22/06/2024 17:30

Yes I see the new BBC head of sports talking about kindness (related to trans issues, while he was ironically being extremely unkind to two of the greatest sports women of our generation ho hum).The issue with kindness is that it's very much gendered, funny how sex does matter - sometimes. Rarely do men get chastised with the 'be kind' mantra.

I encourage my all my children to be respectful as I try to be myself - kindness has fuck all to do with it! Anyone saying 'be kind' immediately has my heckles up to detect manipulation.

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