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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pride: Some women no longer feel safe at what’s meant to be a celebration of all things LGBT

66 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/06/2024 19:34

Last year, Oxfam was forced to apologise after posting an animation for Pride Month featuring a character who many said resembled JK Rowling, depicted with red eyes and wearing a badge bearing the word “Terf” – an acronym of “trans-exclusionary radical feminist” used as a slur against feminists deemed transphobic.

Such disputes may on the surface appear minor, but there are worries among those who were there in the early days of the Pride marches that they are a sign of a more dangerous malaise. They warn that transgender activism has sown bitter divisions within the LGBT community and is now threatening to derail the movement they helped to build.

the clash between lesbian and trans rights has become so pronounced that one group of women has felt compelled to set up a grassroots campaign called “Get the L Out”, to protest at Pride events.

In recent years its members have attended parades in cities across the UK, carrying banners bearing slogans such as “Lesbians don’t like penises” and “Transgenderism erases lesbians”.

Liane Timmermann, a member of “Get the L Out”, says: “Pride was previously a political movement for lesbians and gays and then it was totally hijacked by this gender-identity movement
.
“Trans activists have got higher up on the Pride board and it’s just become shocking.

“Lesbians who are same-sex attracted are not welcome at Pride now.”
Timmermann adds that, initially, Pride organisers were uncertain how to handle the group.

Members of the lesbian rights group were gently asked to leave one London Pride event, she says, but were ultimately allowed to stay because it would cause more disruption to forcibly eject them.

Pride in London, which did not respond to questions from The Telegraph, said at the time, in 2018: “They demanded to march behind the rainbow flag, which marks the official start of our parade. We did not allow that as we did not want to legitimise them or their message.”

However, as time has gone on attitudes have hardened. In 2022, police stepped in to remove the campaigners from Cardiff Pride after they were judged to be stoking a “confrontation” with transgender attendees.

And this schism within the LGBT community over trans ideology is set to widen. On June 29, the day of London’s annual Pride march, Jenny Watson, a 32-year-old lesbian activist, will hold an alternative rally in the capital, because she believes that the main event no longer represents women like her.

Similar to the members of “Get the L Out”, she feels that it has become dominated by the transgender movement and a growing number of men in “hypersexualised” outfits.

“Pride used to be simple and fun,” says Watson, who went to her first march at 18.

“But it’s just turned into this sexualised circus with men in bondage gear or wearing ball gags and lots of women just don’t feel comfortable to be there.

Just a few paragraphs from a much longer article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/17/pride-trans-activists-lgbt-debate-divided/

So strange to find lesbians being given a voice in the Telegraph that Guardian would never allow!

Can also be read at https://archive.ph/o7XEg

How trans fanatics tore Pride apart

Some women no longer feel safe at what’s meant to be a celebration of all things LGBT – and the tensions could undermine the whole movement

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/17/pride-trans-activists-lgbt-debate-divided

OP posts:
SunnieShine · 29/06/2024 18:11

EdithStourton · 29/06/2024 18:00

Our small local town laid on a pride day and a gay friend rolled his eyes and said to me, 'Oh God, Pride next weekend, isn't it?' He won't touch it with a barge pole.

That's how I feel. I wouldn't touch Pride with the end of your barge pole, it's a total embarrassment.

AthenaBasil · 29/06/2024 18:24

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 18:02

Lesbian here, I was at Pride this morning. Sorry to disappoint, but it was very family friendly, safe and respectful. Not a man in fetish gear to be seen.
The Torygraph probably isn’t the best source of objective news.

That’s good to hear but there have been numerous pride events where there have been men in fetish gear.

OP posts:
EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 29/06/2024 18:53

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 18:02

Lesbian here, I was at Pride this morning. Sorry to disappoint, but it was very family friendly, safe and respectful. Not a man in fetish gear to be seen.
The Torygraph probably isn’t the best source of objective news.

That’s brilliant - honestly.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 29/06/2024 19:02

I was in London today, and caught the end of the parade. I didn’t see anything fetish-like to make it family unfriendly, but thought the Labour, LibDem and union presence was unnecessarily hitching some election campaigning onto the Pride celebration. Also, the language some of them were using was definitely family unfriendly - with chants of F*ck the Tory’s’ clearly audible from ASLEF and the Labour Party parade members. But on the whole just saw a bunch of people enjoying themselves in the afternoon sunshine.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 20:03

I suspect the pups will be out later this evening.

IdealHomeExhibition · 29/06/2024 20:06

PeppercornMill · 29/06/2024 19:17

The Guardian has pictures from the day:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2024/jun/29/pride-in-london-in-pictures

Can see the usual assortment of men in bondage and "pup play".

Family friendly

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 20:45

I’ve just seen photos of the furries and some person with a plant pot for a head (traiffid fancier?).

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 20:57

IdealHomeExhibition · 29/06/2024 20:06

Family friendly

I wasn’t in London, I was at a different Pride.

Circumferences · 29/06/2024 21:09

Lol at "family friendly"
Pride parade in Brighton is a notorious drink and drug fest.
You wouldn't take your children down to hang out with a load of blokes on ketamine and speed or whatever else...
It's virtually nothing to do with "pride" these days. Unless you're proud of being a sex narcissist.

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 21:17

Circumferences · 29/06/2024 21:09

Lol at "family friendly"
Pride parade in Brighton is a notorious drink and drug fest.
You wouldn't take your children down to hang out with a load of blokes on ketamine and speed or whatever else...
It's virtually nothing to do with "pride" these days. Unless you're proud of being a sex narcissist.

My dc were with me at Pride today and saw nothing inappropriate in the slightest. Not sure how you can comment if you haven’t actually been 🤷‍♀️

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 21:21

Why take kids to pride?

TheCadoganArms · 29/06/2024 21:22

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 18:02

Lesbian here, I was at Pride this morning. Sorry to disappoint, but it was very family friendly, safe and respectful. Not a man in fetish gear to be seen.
The Torygraph probably isn’t the best source of objective news.

I was at Pride from lunchtime onwards. Walked from trafalgar square up to soho. For the most part I agree with you, it was sunny, a good festival vibe, all good natured, most people just chilling ane having a few drinks. Ended up on Dean Street where there was a small sound stage. But from my perch from about 3pm onwards I started to see the more risqué elements, BDSM dog masks, dildos being waved about, oiled up gyrating muscle men in leathers, blokes in nipple tassles and at one stage a man in slightly creepy 'Victorian' baby outfit. Kink and fetishes were slowly emerging and this was in full view of the many children still present. It was not family friendly and I don't work for the Telegraph.

porridgecake · 29/06/2024 21:46

Runor · 19/06/2024 20:32

Trans rights activism is like a dementor, it sucks the joy out of everything it touches

Vanessa Feltz and Natasha Devon wouldn't agree with you. They were absolutely gushing today on LBC over the way that Pride has become much more about the trans movement and how wonderful it is and how they cannot understand the hate etc. I guess neither of them will ever have to worry about refuges or prisons. No concern for the experimentation on autistic or vulnerable children. I normally like listening to LBC when I am doing my cleaning but I had to switch it off because I just felt despairing. Standing up for the rights of vulnerable women and children is not hate.

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 21:48

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 21:21

Why take kids to pride?

Because I grew up with so much homophobia that coming out was difficult, and I’m hopeful that they live in a world where they can be themselves. I want them to appreciate that, and know that it wasn’t always so, and I want them to celebrate diversity. HTH.

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 21:49

TheCadoganArms · 29/06/2024 21:22

I was at Pride from lunchtime onwards. Walked from trafalgar square up to soho. For the most part I agree with you, it was sunny, a good festival vibe, all good natured, most people just chilling ane having a few drinks. Ended up on Dean Street where there was a small sound stage. But from my perch from about 3pm onwards I started to see the more risqué elements, BDSM dog masks, dildos being waved about, oiled up gyrating muscle men in leathers, blokes in nipple tassles and at one stage a man in slightly creepy 'Victorian' baby outfit. Kink and fetishes were slowly emerging and this was in full view of the many children still present. It was not family friendly and I don't work for the Telegraph.

I wasn’t in London, as I said, so can’t comment on that

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 21:56

It’s an adult thing though. And as you’ve heard from people who were there- it’s getting more adults by the year. I’ve not been for a few years now - and there were a few bare arses early on in the day last time I was. Certain a far cry from the early days - before same sec marriage, gay couples having automatic rights to pensions/say in medical treatment of partners, rights in regards to employment/rent injustices…

Kids see what’s around them. DS knows aunty is a lesbian and his big cousin has a wife. He knows his grandparents best mate was gay and that some of his teachers and my colleagues are gay. He’s never known anything else.

He gets more shit for being ‘mixed race’.

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 22:06

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 21:56

It’s an adult thing though. And as you’ve heard from people who were there- it’s getting more adults by the year. I’ve not been for a few years now - and there were a few bare arses early on in the day last time I was. Certain a far cry from the early days - before same sec marriage, gay couples having automatic rights to pensions/say in medical treatment of partners, rights in regards to employment/rent injustices…

Kids see what’s around them. DS knows aunty is a lesbian and his big cousin has a wife. He knows his grandparents best mate was gay and that some of his teachers and my colleagues are gay. He’s never known anything else.

He gets more shit for being ‘mixed race’.

It’s not an adult thing. Not during the day (it becomes 16+ in the evening here) It was full of kids during the day, plus all their friends from school go and they look forward, and enjoy it.

If it became inappropriate, I might think again but so far it’s a positive experience for them.

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 22:09

If being gay is a non-issue for our young people, that’s FANTASTIC. I do want my dc to understand that it wasn’t always that way.

IwantToRetire · 29/06/2024 23:19

Great to hear the the Lesbian Pride March specifically for biological women attracted to other biological women went really well today. (And no TRAs)

It isn't just about how queer politics has co-opted Pride with its kink etc., but also as Pride is specifically anti sex based rights, and is part of the political networks that have attacked same sex attracted women for being transphobe, I cant understand why anyone on FWR would take part in it.

Yes of course, not just young women but older women struggling with their sexuality, should get support but they aren't going to get that from Pride. They are more likely to feel undermined and confused by the political message of Pride (Stonewall) that men can "idnentify" as lesbians.

Anyway congratulations to Jenny Watson for taking a stand against the misogyny and anti sex reality for organising a properly pro lesbian event.

Lets hope for all women's sake she feels able to do the same next year, and more women will support her.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5063731-5063731-proposed-pride-march-could-be-alternative-for-fed-up-lesbians-this-summer?page=2&reply=136386175

Page 2 | Proposed Pride march could be alternative for ‘fed up’ lesbians this summer | Mumsnet

Women’s rights campaigners are planning to hold an alternative march for [[https://archive.ph/o/FRlcd/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/lgbt/ lesbians]] thi...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5063731-5063731-proposed-pride-march-could-be-alternative-for-fed-up-lesbians-this-summer?page=2&reply=136387295

OP posts:
porridgecake · 29/06/2024 23:35

The "Mean Boys" article linked on the other thread should be compulsory reading for actors and radio presenters IMO.

MadameMassiveSalad · 30/06/2024 07:27

"There's blackface and womanface and now there's Prideface."

So you don't think straight people should be able to attend? @Abeona ?

ProfessorPeppy · 30/06/2024 07:45

I was at a concert on Pride Day in London last year.

On the tube, I bumped into an almost naked man in a huge adult nappy and bra waving a trans flag and a banner.

Being proud to be gay isn’t whatever that was. It’s frightening and abusive (and criminal?) to include the general public in your sexual fetish, especially women and children. Supporting it erodes safeguarding.

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 30/06/2024 07:51

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 22:06

It’s not an adult thing. Not during the day (it becomes 16+ in the evening here) It was full of kids during the day, plus all their friends from school go and they look forward, and enjoy it.

If it became inappropriate, I might think again but so far it’s a positive experience for them.

It’s brilliant that your local Pride is like that. But presumably you wouldn’t take your DC to London or Brighton Pride, given the descriptions here?