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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
Nevergoodenoughforthem · 19/06/2024 07:43

Love this, thank you for sharing.

Floisme · 19/06/2024 07:53

Interesting, I adore Jane Austen yet Taylor Swift bores me senseless. Is this wrong? Guess I should read before commenting further! Thanks for the link op.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 19/06/2024 07:55

Floisme · 19/06/2024 07:53

Interesting, I adore Jane Austen yet Taylor Swift bores me senseless. Is this wrong? Guess I should read before commenting further! Thanks for the link op.

I'm ambivalent about Swift's music, but the phenomenon of her, and how some men respond is fascinating.

OP posts:
argumentativeantitheticaldreamgirl · 19/06/2024 08:18

DrNickedMaCorpus · 19/06/2024 07:55

I'm ambivalent about Swift's music, but the phenomenon of her, and how some men respond is fascinating.

Swift does not centre men and the male gaze in her work. Her writing is for women. Her performances are for women.

WeirdButFuckingBeautiful · 19/06/2024 08:24

Just read this as an email subscriber. Shared with my DD who is a massive Swiftie and an English student who ribs my love for Austen.

TheaBrandt · 19/06/2024 08:26

Obsessed with TS music. The lyrics really hit. Going to re read Persuasion now!

Spinet · 19/06/2024 08:33

Love this, thanks for posting. Good old CCP.

LilianaVikavanovich · 19/06/2024 08:37

I’m going to read that , thanks @DrNickedMaCorpus

MarieDeGournay · 19/06/2024 09:36

Great article, thank you for sharing it. I think CCP has really nailed what it was like to be a girl who didn't want to be 'a girl'. It's different now, instead of redefining what is means to be a girl, hey, you can just be NB or a boy instead, neatly leaving stereotypes of 'girl' unchallenged...

I have no strong feelings about TS, but on the basis of vaguely-heard songs, I quite like her music and on the basis of what I vaguely know, she's a Good Egg who is a pretty positive role model for young girls - a bit of a rarity in the pantheon of pop icons.

But now I think she may be better than I thought -
"They're burning all the witches, even if you aren't one /They got their pitchforks and proof, their receipts and reasons/So light me up.”
is pretty damn good, isn't it?

I'll start listening more carefully!

WinterTrees · 19/06/2024 09:40

I got it in my inbox this morning after being at Cardiff Eras last night. An interesting parallel. I've been atuned to lots of Sylvia Plath similarities (or influences might be more accurate) in TS's writing, so this was a new angle for me and one I'm going to follow up. She's absolutely the female icon of a generation and an astonishing creative talent, whatever you think of the music itself.

ZeldaFighter · 19/06/2024 09:47

I empathise so much with Caroline's journey towards the understanding of patriarchy and feminism. I've told this story irl so I hope I'm not outing myself but I was bored during study period in the Sixth Form library when I was 16/17/18 and I spotted a copy of Joyce Nicholson's "What Society Does to Girls " on a display rack. Abandoned homework and read it cover to cover. Felt like someone had put the light on. I'd seen things that made me angry or uncomfortable before but had no words for them - now I had. Within a few years, I was doing Feminist Literature at Uni - 30 feminist classics (although I've still not read The Second Sex). It's a bit like the whole red pill thing - and I wish more women could do it.

80schildhood · 19/06/2024 09:52

Brilliant read. Thanks for sharing.

ScrapeMyArse · 19/06/2024 09:59

What a fantastic essay. I love Caroline Criado Perez and deeply relate to so much of this.

I still don't really like Taylor's music - or rather if I'm being growth mindset: I haven't heard a track I like yet!!

Gosh this makes me really want to like it though. I certainly admire Taylor Swift herself. Perhaps someone can suggest a good track to start with? I'm too ashamed to say who I'm listening to the most at the moment as it's just hit me that they're almost all men.

WinterTrees · 19/06/2024 10:27

The Man is probably her most overtly feminist song

A lot of her work is quite subtle and self-referential, which is partly how she's built such a loyal fanbase - they know the backstory. She's pretty unapologetic about her writing being autobiographical, and there's a thread running through it about how she's treated by a misogynistic media. There's a huge mismatch between her outward presentation (the wholesome cheerleader type: pretty and nice and compliant) and her inner rage, and she writes about that a lot. There are probably lots of better examples of this, but the one that made an impression when she sung it live is this one (which I think is about how she's treated by the media, though I'm not a TS expert!)

She's obviously immensely clever and well read, and her songs are littered with interesting references to poetry, literature and cultural history. Like her, the packaging doesn't always accurately represent the contents.

Taylor Swift - The Man (Official Video)

Official music video by Taylor Swift performing “The Man” – off her album ‘Lover.’ Stream/Download the album here: https://TaylorSwift.lnk.to/Loversu🕰️ Pre-...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqAJLh9wuZ0

Backinthedress · 19/06/2024 10:47

I like "mad woman" for a feminist track. I think the folklore album is my favourite for the Lyrics and stories. Reading about the context and backstories reveal more.

What did you think I'd say to that?
Does a scorpion sting when fighting back?
They strike to kill and you know I will
You know I will
What do you sing on your drive home?
Do you see my face in the neighbor's lawn?
Does she smile?
Or does she mouth, "Fuck you forever"?
Every time you call me crazy
I get more crazy
What about that?
And when you say I seem angry
I get more angry
And there's nothin' like a mad woman
What a shame she went mad
No one likes a mad woman
You made her like that
And you'll poke that bear 'til her claws come out
And you find something to wrap your noose around
And there's nothin' like a mad woman
Now I breathe flames each time I talk
My cannons all firin' at your yacht
They say, "Move on", but you know, I won't
And women like hunting witches, too
Doing your dirtiest work for you
It's obvious that wanting me dead
Has really brought you two together
Every time you call me crazy
I get more crazy
What about that?
And when you say I seem angry
I get more angry
And there's nothin' like a mad woman
What a shame she went mad
No one likes a mad woman
You made her like that
And you'll poke that bear 'til her claws come out
And you find something to wrap your noose around
And there's nothin' like a mad woman
I'm takin' my time
Takin' my time
'Cause you took everything from me
Watchin' you climb
Watchin' you climb
Over people like me
The master of spin
Has a couple side flings
Good wives always know
She should be mad
Should be scathing like me
But no one likes a mad woman
What a shame she went mad
You made her like that

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