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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Did Keir Starmer just say

317 replies

Helpuschoose · 18/06/2024 09:31

To Nick Ferrari on LBC that transwomen with a GRC will not be allowed in female single-sex spaces? It sounded like it. Is this a clear move or does it still leave wriggle-room? I’m not sure.

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lcakethereforeIam · 21/06/2024 08:15

I watched the clip, it's clear Starmbot had had the algorithm triggered to have a poke at Sunak, Rosie was, if anything, a subroutine.

I also think dishonestly recounting that anecdote actually makes him guilty of the same crime though, he didn't know who was watching.

Oh, and someone need to run the update, 'be kind' is so 2021.

sundaysathome · 21/06/2024 08:21

the woman in the audience who asked the question, raised her hand as he was answering, so I was sure she'd challenge him on his "I agree with Tony Blair" non answer. But nope, nothing. And they quickly changed topic. Weird.

ResisterRex · 21/06/2024 08:24

sundaysathome · 21/06/2024 08:21

the woman in the audience who asked the question, raised her hand as he was answering, so I was sure she'd challenge him on his "I agree with Tony Blair" non answer. But nope, nothing. And they quickly changed topic. Weird.

Yes. If it was a planted question then it didn't work.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 21/06/2024 09:02

The whole weaponising of Tony Blair was bloody weird imo. How did the spads relaunch plans go?

'Right, so we'll wheel him out to shout 'men have penises' in an open necked shirt, then wheel him back in again'

DrNickedMaCorpus · 21/06/2024 09:04

'Then we'll get Keir to shout 'what Tiny said' any time anyone raises a womanly question'.

'What if they keep asking?'

'Tell 'em your da makes tools, squeak safe spaces, and run away'.

'Brilliant.'

EasternStandard · 21/06/2024 09:05

DrNickedMaCorpus · 21/06/2024 09:02

The whole weaponising of Tony Blair was bloody weird imo. How did the spads relaunch plans go?

'Right, so we'll wheel him out to shout 'men have penises' in an open necked shirt, then wheel him back in again'

Ha yep

Although Blair is probably in Starmer’s ear a fair bit

fromorbit · 21/06/2024 09:32

Rosie's response to Starmer is gold:

Rosie Duffield
1So from now on, I shall be submitting my every comment and thought (particularly those mainstream views which most people agree with) to the former Labour Prime Minister so that it may officially be de-toxified...

This is why she is never going to get formal apology as she keeps rocking the boat which is great.

x.com

https://x.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1803902264714604667

BackToLurk · 21/06/2024 10:01

When my OH forgets that I've told him something he says "Did you tell me in a woman's voice?" He is joking, and never expected it to become Labour Party policy.

RoyalCorgi · 21/06/2024 10:12

So, just to clarify, Keir: Tony Blair (MAN) is right to say that men have penises, women have vaginas, but Rosie Duffield (WOMAN) is wrong to say that only women have a cervix because, er, er...

duc748 · 21/06/2024 11:06

That's great from Rosie! He really is a pathetic man.

Tinysoxxx · 21/06/2024 11:07

DrNickedMaCorpus · 21/06/2024 09:04

'Then we'll get Keir to shout 'what Tiny said' any time anyone raises a womanly question'.

'What if they keep asking?'

'Tell 'em your da makes tools, squeak safe spaces, and run away'.

'Brilliant.'

yes please! Btw Tiny says: Rosie Duffield is standing up for women and because of her, Labour are going to get a lot more votes as voters can see all is not lost in the Labour Party.

illinivich · 21/06/2024 11:16

RoyalCorgi · 21/06/2024 10:12

So, just to clarify, Keir: Tony Blair (MAN) is right to say that men have penises, women have vaginas, but Rosie Duffield (WOMAN) is wrong to say that only women have a cervix because, er, er...

It could also be that Blair is a superior and duffield is a subordinate.

Neither option is good.

zibzibara · 21/06/2024 12:26

I remember Starmer saying in an interview this year that he has two sons, but previously he's said he has a daughter and a son. So this could be why he's biased on this topic.

BackToLurk · 21/06/2024 12:42

zibzibara · 21/06/2024 12:26

I remember Starmer saying in an interview this year that he has two sons, but previously he's said he has a daughter and a son. So this could be why he's biased on this topic.

No. That’s pretty much been debunked as conspiracy theory bullshit

UtopiaPlanitia · 21/06/2024 12:54

Excellent tweet from Victoria Smith on the framing of women’s rights as a 'toxic debate':

https://x.com/glosswitch/status/1803908967975788901

'The whole "toxic trans debate" thing is self-styled 'kind, reasonable' people getting angry with women for putting them in a difficult position. They know the women are right and being treated horribly but it's too politically inconvenient, so the women are 'toxic''

CocoapuffPuff · 21/06/2024 13:04

If correct, that makes it worse. We cannot, absolutely cannot, have politicians making bloody laws for the entire population because of their personal family dynamic.

That's lunacy. It certainly ain't democracy.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 21/06/2024 13:15

He did state in an interview that he had 2 sons but it was pretty clear with the phrasing that it was a slip of the tongue which he has since confirmed.

CocoapuffPuff · 21/06/2024 13:27

Ah OK. Odd thing to get wrong.

CorruptedCauldron · 21/06/2024 14:34

I was enraged after watching that clip of Keir responding to the question about his Blair-induced reverse ferret.

Keir’s response was proof he can’t see women and he can’t hear women. It’s just noise in his ears. An irritating whine, why won’t they just shut up and be kind and stop being so toxic. Rosie was right on a biological level but she was too toxic about it, she should have kept her mouth shut. Sure, Tony said the same thing but he put it very well, actually. He said it in such a nice, clear, kind, manly voice, and he was definitely not being toxic because he’s a man, and men aren’t poisonous witches.

Starmer doesn’t see or hear women or understand why they have legitimate concerns. Half the population is invisible to him so that’s why he’s lost my vote. He’s a misogynist, whether he realises it or not.

UtopiaPlanitia · 21/06/2024 15:02

Found an interesting article by Kathleen Stock that might be relevant to this thread.

Keir Starmer’s moral vacuum Labour's ethical limits remain unclear

unherd.com/2024/06/keir-starmers-moral-vacuum/

'This week brought a new performance to pore over, in the form of a filmed walk-and-talk with Gary Neville in the Lake District, a location for Starmer family holidays when he was young ?…Here again, though, the video signalled as little information as a plain white T-shirt worn on matchday. Along with a few repeated manifesto pledges, we learnt that the Labour leader puts “country first, party second”, believes in “action not words”, wants to “return politics to public service”, and is aiming for a “decade of national renewal, fixing the fundamentals”. On “day one, sleeves rolled up”, he plans to “hit the ground running”.

In fact, this is Starmer playing the fictional character created during focus groups before the Labour leadership election, as described in Deborah Mattinson’s book Beyond The Red Wall…Mattison would eventually become Starmer’s Director of Strategy. Labour Together’s then-director, Morgan McSweeney, would become the party’s new campaign director and the mastermind of Starmerism. Four years later, a strong and purposeful Starmer entered stage right, jaw set and sleeves rolled-up, ready to hit the ground running on the NHS, housing, education, crime, tax avoidance, and immigration — as instructed.

Compared to the fantasised projections of some politicians upon the electorate, this doesn’t necessarily sound bad. Still, it has obvious weak points. One issue is that, without an accompanying positive and well-articulated vision of what human flourishing looks like, communitarianism is only as Left-wing as the community whose desires are currently being accommodated; that is, it will be contingently on the Left of the political spectrum rather than essentially so. And perhaps more seriously, a lack of accompanying discussion about ethical values will leave the electorate chaotically chasing its own tail.

…To take an obvious example: decreeing that people should be free to do what they want without harming others downgrades the importance of inherited social bonds.

…It would be good to have a concrete idea of what Labour’s moral limits are, expressed in plain terms.

…In the end, being vague about the party’s concrete ethical worldview, while deferring to the sensibleness of the British voter, just won’t be enough.'

Greaterorlesser · 21/06/2024 15:11

I think that whilst Corbyn was (in my opinion) an awful choice for the Labour Party at least he wasn’t shy about saying exactly what he thought, and didn’t care if people didn’t agree with him. I’ve absolutely no idea what Starmer stands for or genuinely believes. He’s a total mystery

ResisterRex · 21/06/2024 16:11

Interesting...maybe the focus groups are discussing this after all. Still don't trust them on this issue - given what is written down in the manifesto:

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/21/uk-general-election-live-updates-tories-labour-bets-gambling-rules-rishi-sunak

"Starmer says he would not let SNP government hold 2nd independence referendum, or lift veto on its gender ID bill
...
Starmer also confirmed that he will not reverse the section 35 order blocking Holyrood’s gender recognition bill, which was imposed by the Tories. He said:
There will be no change of position on that and I think there’s a lot to learn on gender self-ID from the way it’s been dealt with in Scotland, which is why we’ve got a different proposition in our manifesto.
Referring to the Scottish government’s judicial review of that order, which failed, Sarwar said: “The court has made it very clear that the law as it currently stands doesn’t comply with the Equality Act and the primacy of the Equality Act is very important.”"

whiteroseredrose · 21/06/2024 17:22

Starmer says he would not let SNP hold new independence referendum or lift veto on gender recognition bill – UK election live

whiteroseredrose · 21/06/2024 17:24

Sorry. Didn't mean to hit send yet but I'm in knots about this election. I'm so concerned about the environment and don't trust the Conservatives, but Labour and Greens keep putting me off.

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