Lia Thomas update ...

[murasaki]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun/12/transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-out-of-olympics-after-losing-legal-battle-swimming

What a shame.

That would be so interesting. If the women signed up to open category instead, after he had signed up to women's category.

I know,thoughts and prayers are with him etc.

But in 2019 - the Court of Arbitration in Sport was very clear on sex segregated sports.

"The Panel accepts the IAAF’s submission that reference to a person’s legal sex alone may not always constitute a fair and effective means of making that determination. This is because the reason for the separation between male and female categories in competitive athletics is ultimately founded on biology rather than legal status.

The purpose of having separate categories is to protect a class of individuals who lack certain insuperable performance advantages from having to compete against individuals who possess those insuperable advantages.

In this regard, the fact that a person is recognised in law as a woman and identifies as a woman does not necessarily mean that they lack those insuperable performance advantages associated with certain biological traits that predominate in individuals who are generally (but not always) recognised in law as males and self-identify as males.

It is human biology, not legal status or gender identity, that ultimately determines which individuals possess the physical traits which give rise to that insuperable advantage and which do not.

Accordingly, the purpose of the male-female divide in competitive athletics is not to protect athletes with a female legal sex from having to compete against athletes with a male legal sex. Nor is it to protect athletes with a female gender identity from having to compete against athletes with a male gender identity.

Rather, it is to protect individuals whose bodies have developed in a certain way following puberty from having to compete against individuals who, by virtue of their bodies having developed in a different way following puberty, possess certain physical traits that create such a significant performance advantage that fair competition between the two groups is not possible.

In most cases, the former group comprises individuals with a female legal sex and a female gender identity, while the latter group comprises individuals with a male legal sex and male gender identity. However, this is not true of all cases. Natural human biology does not map perfectly onto legal status and gender identity. The imperfect alignment between nature, law and identity is what gives rise to the conundrum at the heart of this case. "

This relates to DSD's and in my opinion they did not follow this through to the correct conclusion - but the language here is very clear... I wish every journalist, politician, every policy writing member of sporting organisations world wide would read and absorb this.

Here if you want to read the Executive Summary.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.saflii.org/images/cassummary.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjvvOOUy9aGAxWhVKQEHVgDDqoQFnoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Y-ZneWo7uLmuatCTxmtlp" rel="nofollow" target="blank">EXECUTIVE SUMMARYSAFLIIwww.saflii.org › images › cassummary
and the full text..

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award-redacted-_Semenya_ASA_IAAF.pdf

Worth reading -

I wish we could find a way to get these words out there and repeated every time this comes up ... "discrimination (on the basis of sex) is a necessary reasonable and proportionate means of achieving the aim of upholding the protected class of female athletes and the integrity of female athletics. "

I would also love to see the words of the World Anti Doping code which uses the words 'athletes fundamental right to fairness and equality" in competition..

I want to see someone ask if this 'fundamental right' to fairness in competition extend to women. and in the words of the Sporting Councils of England, Wales and Scotland, 'categorisation within the sex binary is and remains the most useful and functional division relative to sporting performance and that competitive fairness cannot be reconciled with self-identification into the female category.'

These are all expert opinions based on careful deliberation, review of evidence and are entirely unequivocal...

and yet - our journalists consistently fail to refer to these credible sources... why is that?

Nailed it!

I think it's a shame they had the open category as a third option. It should have been 2 categories: women who have never gone through any part of male puberty, and "Open" which anyone of any sex or gender can enter (replacing what was previously called Mens). I am not surprised that no one entered the 3rd category, it's obvious that wouldn't fly. An open category that women and transwomen are free to enter without having to "other" themselves (but which will always be won by a man because biology) is more inclusive without stomping on anyone's rights.

This.

The graun’s sports pages have always been a bit terfy!

And apologise for making women change with him.

Can't help but feel it's undermined "Operation Let Them Swim" a bit - would have been good PR.

There was a time when lia's alleged behaviour in the female changing rooms would of seen lia in crt facing charges of voyeurism and indecent exposure, I miss those times and look forward to there return

in order to get legal standing, he would have had to swim and qualify as a male in the US Olympic trials this weekend, then he would be a member of the US squad and able to challenge the World Aquatics ruling that Trans women cannot compete in Women categories.

He'd never have qualified in the Men's races.

Why was @SquirrelSoShiny comment deleted for goodness sake?!

Because it was insufficiently deferent.

Was I deleted for describing Lia the cheat as a cheat? And for saying the Open class was there for mediocre male swimmers to compete in? Something like that no doubt. I mean we can't be telling the truth about things, can we?

I'd missed the deleted message and was wondering what it was. If it's what you said, then I don't see why it was deleted.

It sounds like WA didn’t have to get as far as arguing the scientific case because Thomas had been swimming in the NCAA but didn’t have to be a member of US Swimming to do so (with US Swimming being the the national governing body for WA).

So Thomas couldn’t argue about being excluded from WA competition because he had not been a member of the relevant body and eligible to swim in competitions under WA rules (the NCAA has its own rules that may or may not align with WA).

You can’t argue that you’re excluded from something you’re not eligible for in the first place.

I do hope this has cost Thomas and his financial backers a very, very, very large sum of money.

And Sean Ingle is very much aware of why women to have the right to single sex sports.

I hope Riley Gaines and the female U Penn swimmers are enjoying a large gin.

What are the Olympic rules now? Thomas was such a perfect case that he’d have led the world to that mountaintop and anyone who still was not aware of the travesty that’s occurring under the false banner of “inclusivity” would have been blasted wide open.

We need a male to dominate in a popular sport. Pretty sure the scandal would create huge waves.

And Sean has once again pissed off Emily Bridges mum by being ‘transphobic’, so it’s a double win.

Incredible isn't it. God forbid you tell the truth!

Interesting that BBC Sport has carefully not used any pronouns for Thomas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/articles/c4nn20w0x0zo

so maybe it is possible to keep a good man down. either that or LT isn't good.

Mrs Bridges really needs to give up. We see you and him.

@SabrinaThwaite when the BBC 1st reported on lia's case they quoted lia calling liaself a transgender female and went on to state that transgender females were banned from swimming in the female events. I put in a complaint pointing out that transgender females are trans men not trans women who are transgender males and that their article was misrepresenting the rules in a way that was harmful to trans men by making them wrongfully believe that they were banned from swimming in female competitions. To my surprise they changed the article removing all references to transgender females except in the direct quote from lia and put the actual rules in the article instead of lia's take on them.
I don't know how many others complained about the article but it originally read like a puff piece on how mean the WA were being to poor lia and that no-one had even fact checked it whilst the updated version was much more neutral so I'm wondering if it's a case of once bitten twice shy when it comes to reporting about lia

@Hoardasurass Maybe the adults are taking over again? I do hope so.