Sex abuse and Pakistani men - what's going on?

[Sparklybutold]

Rotherham is seeing more sentences being given this week owing to predominantly Pakistani men. This is not an isolated problem, and is a serious problem in many other places across the UK. However, to talk about this trend ignites accusations of Islamophobia and racism.

I am well aware that VAWG exists regardless of race or culture, however there is a trend worthy of exploration here without it being shut down and side tracked with erroneous bigotry accusations.

Without open discussion which would include uncomfortable debate about the oppression and sexism that exists amongst this community, this type of abuse will thrive where silence is encouraged.

On the flip, why are young women so vulnerable? Is it going to get worse with the col crisis and massive cuts being made to social services?

So what's peoples thoughts on this?

The heritage of the abusers/ front line "groomers" of these girls and young women, changes over time. 40 years ago the "face" of the pimping bands were afro-caribean men. It is a form of organised crime. I would suggest, as always, follow the money. There will be people higher up the food chain who are literally cashing in on this trade.

It is as you say at least a two pronged problem. And I don't mean any blame goes to the victims here.

What I mean is that we as a society are failing to raise our children with sufficient self worth and confidence to be able to resist the apparent "charm" that ropes these girls in.

We are also failing to ensure that the pattern of attitudes to young white girls is not repeated through generations.

Personally I think for the men involved, punishment and monitoring is really the only option as their attitudes are likely so entrenched. But maybe there is a chance with the younger boys.

We also need to be able to call out these grooming behaviours without fear of being called racist.

Community leaders could also help on promoting positive behaviours and condemning those that are unacceptable.

The solution probably is within households but so many on either side are inadequate.

I think there is a lack of positive male role models in general.

Yep. It's also been Turkish men, Albanian men and Somalian men.

It's astonishing how little coverage white gang members get despite the same behaviours.

It's all linked with County Lines these days so the drugs end up being the primary news story. Drugs are also the easier charges to prove so a lot of young women who don't want to talk / go to court can only be safeguarded and the offenders dealt with in other ways.

Most groomers in this country and white brits because most people in this country are white brits.
Go to places with majority Asian population and don't be surprised when the majority of abusers are Asian.
What is so awful about these Asian grooming gangs was the downright negligence, and even connivance of the police, schools, social workers etc to not help the girls involved as they didn't want to be seen as racist.
The safety, wellbeing and health of the most vulnerable of vulnerable sacrificed I the name of inclusive fluffiness.

Absolutely agree.

Reading your post and I think the issue here is the silencing that happened. Without getting sidetracked this is a common issue today which means lots of bad things start to happen when people's shit doesn't get called out.

I also realise that this is what gets me most. Those who should have seen it and done something about it, didn't. I know I have been a victim of this (past CSA 'survivor'), but then I know there are people who want to call it out, but can't?

I have worked with women who are Pakistani and conversation about male violence and brutality in the community is rife. Women are then trained to not say anything else they risk being excommunicated and further violence.

I have seen how the abuse exists to crumble the very being of womanhood and there own cultural identity, so disentangling it is near impossible.

So there are Pakistani men, who have no respect for women in their own community but still believe they are entitled to women's bodies. Their view of sex is abusively skewed and they then access it in the most vulnerable - young white girls.

Then looking at the type of girls being targeted. Perpetrators know who to target.

I hadn't throught of the county lines issue and its connection to VAWG.

This is obvs a generalisation, but my perception and personal experience seems to be that the gangs of groomers tend to be non white and the individual predators ones are more likely to be white.

Whether that is borne out statistically or my view is skewed due to reporting I cannot say.

My ex worked within the mental health arena, often with abusers and he's been told by them more than once that they can look into a playground of kids and pretty quickly assess who they can abuse and get away with it. It's not always the shy quiet loners either.

I think your perception is a little skewed by the reporting. One of the commonalities, historically, has been the use of taxis as the "cover" business for running both drugs and prostitution. People have been reporting this for decades, with a range of colour and race for the perpetrators, largely to no avail. 40 years ago one group were taken to court, in a northern town, they had held a young woman for several hours, as a punishment for withholding funds and running away, a year earlier. They were charged with the assault, not with the immoral earnings, or kidnap, they were given a suspended sentence, even though the girl was still underage when she was kidnapped.
As always, follow the money and believe the whistle blowers, don't blame them

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-terrorism-a8261831.html

They made it clear that because I was a non-Muslim, and not a virgin, and because I didn’t dress "modestly", that they believed I deserved to be "punished". They said I had to "obey" or be beaten.

The Islamic beliefs of these rapists were a significant influence, and I think we should be allowed to point this out without accusations of bigotry.

💯

But then where do we start to dismantle it? Men are being taught this? And for men it is absolutely entrenched in their culture.

Part of the problem with dismantling this set of behaviours is the community’s practice of finding brides and grooms for their UK born children who are born and brought up in Pakistan.

The effect of this is, IMO, to dilute the ‘westernisation’ / liberalisation of successive generations. If you’re regularly dipping back into the well of a very small-c conservative culture, with strongly ingrained misogynistic leanings, then the UK-resident community won’t change very quickly.

Wasn't there an article posted here recently about the difference between groups that tend to integrate, including through marriage, and those that don't?

Anyway - I think that the issue here to some extent isn't about abusers per SE, it's about organized crime. All communities have individual abusers, and perhaps some more than others, but that's not what's going on when we are talking about these gangs.

Organized crime is a whole different kind of problem. But from what I understand, organized crime is almost always tied in to racial groups, be they British, European, Asian, or African, or whatever. And certain groups tend to run certain types of crime though as a pp said, over the years which group is doing what can change.

So I don't think it's surprising that pimping and prostitution would be organized racially any more than pickpocketing or scamming crimes.

Having travelled to Muslim countries myself, I have noticed a (very generalised) attitude that white women are "up for it", and it's often seen as the women's fault for causing lustful feelings. I have always dressed modestly in these countries to reflect the cultural norms and to prevent unwanted attention, but I was still groped on one occasion!

My Christian friend's husband has some pretty awful views regarding what he sees as men's uncontrollable lust towards women and girls dressing immodestly...

A long time ago I read "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens which explores Abrahamic religions and touches on religious attitudes towards women - it was really interesting. And ties in nicely with the issues around gender ideology (jealousy and control over women's reproduction).

I don't think it should be seen as bigoted to critique religions - I know not all Muslims are like this - I do my best to judge every person on their merits and pitfalls and not on their religion - but I do know that Islam has some pretty problematic features when it comes to the rights of women and girls.

Maggie Oliver wants to know as well:
https://x.com/LBC/status/1547214190418567170

When you scrape away all the surface noise about race, religion etc.it all pretty much comes down to our old friend "double standards" and male feelings of superiority.

Women are possessions of men because men say so. Women have to be pure because men say so. Men can f*ck around because men say so. All backed up by religion - another male invention, further bolstered by a toxic culture where the rules are laid down by - yes, men.

Nothing will change until girls stop feeding into the same narrative. All my life I have asked why? What is so special about men - they are just people like women? They have no right to tell me what to do or dictate my life. The biggest favour that parents and other carers for girls can do is to teach them from the time they leave nappies behind is to say f*ck off to boys and men who play the sexist/superiority card. This is not victim blaming: it is teaching females not to be victims - to value themselves as individuals with the same rights as males; no female needs male approval.

Quite how we break the vicious circle of women going along with this crap I'm not sure. But it is possible. My parents came from the f*ck off school of teaching girls to do their own thing and I am eternally grateful and passed on the same lessons to my daughters. They do their own thing too.

Sorry about the italics - not sure what happened there.....

Go to places with majority Asian population and don't be surprised when the majority of abusers are Asian.

Rotherham doesn't have a majority Asian population:

Population by race in Rotherham, 2021 census

White - 241,954 people or 91.0%
Asian - 14,176 people or 5.3%
Mixed - 3,854 people or 1.4%
Black - 3,016 people or 1.1%
Other - 2,806 people or 1.1%