Diane Abbott to be banned from standing for Labour

[IwantToRetire]

... Diane Abbott will not be allowed to stand as a Labour candidate in the forthcoming general election, in a move that is likely to end her 37-year career in parliament.

The MP for Hackney North & Stoke Newington — the first black woman elected to parliament — has been suspended from the party since April last year and the Labour leadership has concluded that there are no circumstances in which she will stand under its banner on July 4.

An announcement of the party’s position could come as early as today. There are discussions among senior aides to Sir Keir Starmer about restoring her to the Labour whip before the election to allow her to leave politics “with dignity”.

Last week the Labour leader promised a resolution to the case before June 4, his party’s deadline for candidate selection, which falls three days before the legal close of nominations.

On Tuesday morning the BBC reported that the party’s internal investigation into a letter by Abbott to The Observer, in which she likened the discrimination suffered by Jewish people, the Irish and Travellers to the bullying of redheads, had concluded six months ago, without any update on her status as an election candidate.
Abbott, 70, is said to have been issued with a formal warning by the party and was told to complete an “antisemitism awareness course”. She did so in February, having apologised publicly and withdrawn her remarks.

Sources close to the left-wing MP told the BBC that Labour leadership was deliberately “dragging out the process in order to block her from being a candidate at the election”. It is understood that the decision to exclude her is final and will not change even in the event she issues a further apology. ...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/diane-abbott-mp-labour-general-election-2024-fvgnbprdm

(If this is true, irrespective of the rights and wrongs, that Labour should use such underhand tactics is just disgusting. In other words they could have told her this in February. Can only imagine how they will behave once in Government.)

Can also be read at https://archive.ph/orgiJ

I know there have been other threads but MNHQ search is useless and even searching by google didn't bring them up, except this one which I seem to have started. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5029371-rally-of-support-for-diane-abbot-in-hackney-called-by-hackney-black-women

In the context of Britain, anti Irish Catholic racism is trivial (speaking as one). It does happen but it is just not a significant part of the culture.

It has ebbed and flowed between colonisation, massacres, arguably genocides, demonisation, dehumanisation, patronising, tolerance, amusement and nothing.
Some Irish people in Britain escaped it, some suffered and died because of it, there's no single experience.

It's under the surface, but it's mostly to do with a long, very long anti-Irish history and a widespread refusal to acknowledge that fact - or indeed have even a basic knowledge of the historical relationship between our islands.
Contextual mention of objective facts about centuries of British atrocities in Ireland is often greeted with an eye-roll, oh here we go again, what about the IRA, will 'you people' ever let go of the past etc etc.

The culture of denial is still significant, and unfortunately DA's letter contributed to that culture.

I will write from my own experience which only goes back to the 1970s.
Firstly, I specified Britain rather than UK. In the context of this thread, I had a discussion with two Jewish people who argued the discrimination they suffered (which seemed to amount to some banks in the city being less liely to employ them) dwarfed anything suffered in Northern Ireland. That is clearly daft.
In my lifetime, it has effectively ebbed dramatically. If anything, this this largely atheist society, being a Church going Catholic is almost more "normal" than being a Church going Protestant. I remember remarks, but they often struck me as silly. I had a lad in one of my rugby teams who was a paid up member of the UVF and he was silly and naive (though also a football hooligan). I had a good friend who married a lady whose family were very Orange Lodge in Glasgow and was wary of me being Catholic. But we get on great.
I am aware here that I am dismissive of things that might be considered serious in other contexts, but compared to what I thin black people and travellers face, I would say it is trivial..

I wouldn't say Jewish places of worship (and now, from what I understand, schools) needing security "trivial". I have Jewish friends and their synagogues have needed security for decades (it's provided by members of their community, not by the state). Also I'd say there's potentially unconscious antisemitism in your post (I'm sure unintended). It subtly implies all Jewish people are rich and have jobs as bankers etc. The Jewish people I know are far from rich. Quite the opposite.

The Holocaust is also still in living memory and many Jewish people in the UK today lost relatives when it happened.

Separately wasn't Diane Abbott refering to Travellers rather than Irish people in general (and not all Travellers are Irish Travellers). They absolutely have suffered from huge prejudice. I understand studies have found they're one of the most discriminated against groups in the UK, and the Roma were also victims of the Nazis.

No one said that anti semitism is trivial.
I stated my own experience but that was in the context of me not knowing the full story. The point was the experience of Irish Catholics in Britain (as opposed to the UK) is benign. We do not have armed guards for our Churches.
There is a point at which you have to stop reaching.

I'd say suggesting antisemitic racism, and anti Traveller racism as "reaching" proves the point that those groups very real experiences of racism is too often downplayed and dismissed.

Gypsy, Roma and Traveller (GRT) people are the most disadvantaged of all ethnic groups in society.

Negative media portrayals of GRT fuel racism and discrimination towards these groups in which they continue to be demonised.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/77169/html/

I was specifically stating that.

On anti-Irish Catholic racism in Britain " ...but compared to what I thin[k black people and travellers face, I would say it is trivial."

I avoided including antisemitic racism as bundling it in together being contentious is another point. At some point, read what is written.

The very fact that you suggest antisemitic racism is 'contentious' suggests you're dismissing or downplaying it.

Even ignoring the Holocaust (which is kind of hard to ignore especially as it is still within living memory for some people), antisemitism has been an issue in the UK for a long time. I've included a link below from before the Hamas terrorist attacks in October last year and the following conflict, although that issue also highlights the serious problem of antisemitic racism because antisemitic hate crime has shot up since then (and regardless of anyone's views on the ME conflict, most British Jews are British, not Israeli).

https://www.statista.com/chart/16928/antisemitic-incidents-in-the-uk-annual/

The very fact that you suggest antisemitic racism is 'contentious' suggests you're dismissing or downplaying it.

@Sweden99 clearly says the bundling of antisemitism with other forms of racism is (or could be) contentious. Not antisemitism itself.

Thank you.
There is enough racism in this world that people should not have to make things up to be hurt.

I admit I didn't understand my Jewish friends when I was younger. I was brought up in a household that condemned all forms of racism and I was quite naive. I understand more now.

The last two posts speak for themselves. Couldn't be clearer dismissal of antisemitic racism. Apparently it's "contentious" and "made up".

I'm not the type to report posts and as I'm quite new here I'm not sure of the etiquette on when to do that so if your post is reported I'm letting you know here it wasn't me.

I'd completely understand though if someone else does, although personally I think they should stay because they're a clear example of the dismissal of antisemitic racism (the dismissal imo is in itself antisemitic racism).

@whatab I am glad you had Jewish friends. I line with my romantic life (dominated by Jewish Americans) I married a Jewish American.
No-one is saying that anti-semitism is made up. That is you lying.
I said (as you know) that comparing anti-semitism to anti-black, anti-Irish Catholic racism or anti-traveller racism can be contentious. You are also cross at me not doing it enough.

I think most posters have tried to be careful about not dismissing one group's experience, while asserting another group's.

Objecting to DA's brushing aside of certain forms of prejudice [by comparison to hair colour, and by referring to pre-Civil Rights USA, rather than the UK] is not the same as denying that there are specificities in the lived experience of various groups in society.
[BTW DA specifically referred to 'Irish people' in general, not to 'Irish Travellers']
You may have misread some posts, whatab.

The OP referenced a letter by DA to The Observer. From the OP (and the Times article OP linked)
in which she likened the discrimination suffered by Jewish people, the Irish and Travellers to the bullying of redheads

So DA did mention Travellers separately from Irish people.

Separately, why is another poster claiming that comparing antisemitic racism to other forms of racism is 'contentious'? What's contentious, unless those posters are dismissing, denying, or dismissing antisemitic racism?

All forms of racism, no matter which group it's directed at, are wrong. It's not something that should require comparisons. When I say comparisons, I mean suggesting that one type of racism is "less bad'" than another. I suppose the only legitimate comparison I can think of is that, although sadly all forms of racism still exist, it seems mainly antisemitic and anti-Traveller racism that is most often dismissed or downplayed or denied.

As for misreading, maybe I have but this from Sweden99 There is enough racism in this world that people should not have to make things up to be hurt. is something I've noticed being claimed whenever Jewish people mention antisemitic hate crimes and just general antisemitic sentiments. I'm not necessarily talking about MN. I mean in general on and offline. With MN, I've not been on many threads where the issues have come up. I was on this board for the feminism.

Many times, when racism towards other groups, rather than Jewish people or Travellers, is mentioned, many posters write that it's not for other people to tell the person who has experienced racism that "they're making it up" or "exaggerating" or "seeing offence when it isn't there". I don't know why but for some reason that argument doesn't always seem to be applied when the victim is Jewish or a Traveller. All racism should be equally condemned and none should be deemed worse than another.

On a separate but related note, as I mentioned earlier on this thread, some people are both black and Jewish.

I think you should calm it.
You should read properly and apologise.

Calm what? I assume it's best if I disengage now though as I don't think you're willing to acknowledge my points and we're obviously not going to agree on this. I don't have time to get into an argument, nor do I want to.

Imagine though if your quoted post was about any other form of racism, rather than racism towards Travellers or Jewish people. Saying "just calm it" comes across dismissing or denying it. I'm not Jewish or a Traveller so perhaps it's not for me to comment but I believe all forms of racism are wrong. Equally wrong.

As for apologies. I'm not DA but I understand that she has already apologised.

I think you should calm it.
You should read properly and apologise.

I think if @whatab re reads the posts she will find that perhaps she has misunderstood @Sweden99?

It’s easy to become so entrenched in your pov that you cannot see what the other person is saying no matter the repetition or reframing their point.

I did refer to not having seen first hand anti-semitism in the UK. This was not to say it does not exist, my personal experience does not equate to a greater reality! Many people do not believe in things they do not see themselves but I am not one of those people. I perhaps could have emphasized this more strongly.

Separately, why is another poster claiming that comparing antisemitic racism to other forms of racism is 'contentious'?

assuming this is a genuine question, because the whole point of the controversy around DA’s letter was the ranking of different forms of racism against each other.

To be clear, all forms of racism are abhorrent, however the origins, context and outworkings of racism against different groups such as Travellers, Jews, Black, Irish, and/or Asian people mean that blanket platitudes, statements and solutions run the danger of causing more offence due to their ignorance. By which I mean the assumption that the default is white, British and Protestants, and anyone else can be categorised as “other”. One poster has tried to share their experience of racism as a Catholic Irish person and been honest about their lack of awareness of other forms of prejudice when they were younger and received aggressive, critical posts for it - from you!

So yes, you’ve proved the very point that that poster was trying to make. It can be contentious trying to push different forms of racism together, because the moment you discuss one form of racism someone will jump in with a load of whataboutery about another form.

To be fair to @whatab, if she genuinely thought I was writing anti-semitic racism, then she was reasonable to object.

yes, but…

Yes. Indeed. And thanks,
I really do not think there is much anti-Irish Catholic prejudice in Britain at all. Our Catholic school in Britain was evacuated once with a bomb scare (during the troubles) and we laughed as a Catholic British school seemed about the safest place from bombing back then.

What was the point of sharing this information of your own personal experience? It serves no purpose other than to cast aspersions on claims to the contrary.