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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
heldinadream · 16/05/2024 17:10

Oh thanks OP watching it now.
Be lovely to see the crumbling of Stonewall. Years and years ago I used to bloody support them with a monthly donation! Before the T was added and took over. 😡

AnotherAngryAcademic · 16/05/2024 17:18

@heldinadream I used to donate to them too - before the cotton ceiling/sexual racist nonsense.

Mainly I am really sad about Stonewall. It did such a good job before the trans rabbit hole. And there was real potential to do good. I can fully understand that for some people "same sex attraction" didn't quite describe their own relationship with their own sense of self - and that describing attraction in terms of gender felt like a better fit. That's great. All that was needed was a simple acknowledgment that those of us that understand our own sexual orientation as a sexual orientation, rather than a gender(ed) orientation, are also valid.

Beyond the damage Stonewall has done to some LGB people (and those T people who object to this kind of activism), Stonewall has also made it clear that it is not a good idea for organisations to outsource thinking to groups with a political agenda.

OP posts:
JacketPotatoFoodOfTheGods · 16/05/2024 18:11

Link?

May2024 · 16/05/2024 18:19

I can't anything. Is there a link or picture I can't see?

OP posts:
BreadInCaptivity · 16/05/2024 18:26
Boiledbeetle · 16/05/2024 18:26

I suppose when you sell snake oil eventually the whole thing is going to collapse!

Is Stonewall crumbling?
WarriorN · 16/05/2024 18:37

Yes. HTH

JudasButler1 · 16/05/2024 19:16

I can fully understand that for some people "same sex attraction" didn't quite describe their own relationship with their own sense of self - and that describing attraction in terms of gender felt like a better fit. That's great. All that was needed was a simple acknowledgment that those of us that understand our own sexual orientation as a sexual orientation, rather than a gender(ed) orientation, are also valid.

I honestly wonder what this might have looked like

AnotherAngryAcademic · 16/05/2024 19:30

JudasButler1 · 16/05/2024 19:16

I can fully understand that for some people "same sex attraction" didn't quite describe their own relationship with their own sense of self - and that describing attraction in terms of gender felt like a better fit. That's great. All that was needed was a simple acknowledgment that those of us that understand our own sexual orientation as a sexual orientation, rather than a gender(ed) orientation, are also valid.

I honestly wonder what this might have looked like

I suspect it probably wouldn't have ended up looking like anything sensible (i.e., I don't think it would have prevented the "but I'm a LESBIAN and you MUST accept me as one" behaviour) - but it would perhaps have prevented some of nastiness. It may also have allowed for some debate, rather than no debate. Who knows?!

I can accept that some people feel that their sense of gender is more meaningful for them than their sexed body. I don't understand it, mainly because my experience is the complete opposite, but I wish no ill on those who would define themselves in a different way. What I don't accept is the wholesale centring of gender identity in what seems like every aspect of public life, to the detriment of those who have specific needs related to their sex.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 16/05/2024 19:31

Hope so and about time

lcakethereforeIam · 16/05/2024 21:13

Just noticed this

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/16/stonewalls-list-of-top-employers-to-be-reviewed-backlash/

https://archive.ph/Wf7Aq see you past the stonepaywall

I'm not convinced it means anything, it could be a routine rejigging. It would be fantastic if it was the mother birthing parent of reversing ferrets.

Although I want abject apologies, mea culpas, sack cloth, ashes. I want the rending of clothes not just a pivot and carry on.

Stonewall’s list of top employers to be reviewed amid backlash over trans lobbying

Stonewall’s guidance on trans issues has faced intense scrutiny after last month’s damning Cass Review

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/16/stonewalls-list-of-top-employers-to-be-reviewed-backlash

YesHesAPlonker · 16/05/2024 21:39

heldinadream · 16/05/2024 17:10

Oh thanks OP watching it now.
Be lovely to see the crumbling of Stonewall. Years and years ago I used to bloody support them with a monthly donation! Before the T was added and took over. 😡

Ditto - I wonder how many donations they lost while pursuing the big bucks?

May2024 · 16/05/2024 21:54

BreadInCaptivity · 16/05/2024 18:26

How strange I can't see OP's link but can see this one.

I can see OP link when I leave the app and use my browser.

That's not happened before!!

Thingybob · 16/05/2024 22:25

I'd love to know what happened at the Stonewall Workplace Conference and why the blonde woman in the podcast got kicked out despite having paid (around 43:30 mins in)

Abeona · 17/05/2024 20:20

I'm listening to it now (only about 10 minutes in) and finding it a bit irritating. The speakers are clearly not happy with Stonewall and asking important questions, but they seem to accept the idea that trans/ gender ideology is a genuine and valid ideology and all transpeople are good faith actors. They're talking as if there's a discrete homogeneous trans minority rather than the vast, varied and conflict-ridden bunch sheltering under the trans umbrella.

They've started warming up a bit on the subject now (20 minutes in): there has been an observation that HR leaders are starting to realise that silence from the majority of their employees doesn't indicate support or assent. Also making quite a powerful point about HR becoming aware that they might be seen to be compelling belief. I have to stop shortly but will come back to it later.

Okay: they're starting to really pull Stonewall apart now. Referring to Nancy Kelley's sexual racist comment, clearly spelling out how offensive it is. I take back what I said earlier...

TempestTost · 18/05/2024 13:44

there has been an observation that HR leaders are starting to realise that silence from the majority of their employees doesn't indicate support or assent. Also making quite a powerful point about HR becoming aware that they might be seen to be compelling belief.

I think this is something that really hasn't been adequately dealt with.

I think I've told the story here of a friend who left a company he'd been with for many years because of their increasing insistence on employees participating in political initiatives in the company. He is, and always was as long as he worked there, a very observant Catholic. Which really didn't have anything to do with his job which involved dealing with technical issues in industry.

Over the years though there were more and more of all the political posturing that we see employers involved in now, including things like wanting the employees to march with a float or truck or something in the Pride parade, wearing political lanyards, and all that kind of thing. For whatever reason most of it seemed to be around LGBTQ+ stuff, and some with BLM for a few years.

My friend was never inclined to talk about religion at work, but he increasingly found it difficult to not participate in all the stuff they wanted, and the people would ask questions about why he never went in the parade and so on. He didn't feel he could really give an answer, and he eventually left for another, smaller company.

I'm not sure how that doesn't count as pressure around religious beliefs, and for that matter political beliefs. Aren't we supposed to be entitled to those things, whatever an employer thinks? There is a reason we tend to avoid businesses, at least large ones with a lot of different employees, asking to participate in religious types of rituals, and many people even avoid talking much about their religious beliefs and life - it's because it's not appropriate to put that stuff on other workers. Well, secular belief systems aren't that differernt, not everyone thinks the same things about identity, or race, or sexual behaviour, or child-rearing.

We've lost some important boundaries in the workplace IMO.

FannyCann · 18/05/2024 14:53

I'm not celebrating yet.
The gender cult is like a hydra - cut off one head but there are plenty more and they keep replicating.

There are loads of organisations that they have spawned carrying on doing the good work.

I have discovered today that the NHS Rainbow badge scheme which had previously been reported as being quietly shut down is carrying on full steam ahead.

From the FOI:

"The scheme is ongoing. The up-to-date list of participating Trusts is given in Table 1, below.
The budget for the NHS Rainbow Badge project in 2023/24 was £143,000.
NHS England will be managing the scheme, and will continue to support the
scheme in 2024/25."

You can check the list of trusts involved in the FOI to see if your local trust is in the scheme.

Many of the trusts have supplied their 2023 accreditation report in response to FOIs requesting them, which can also be found on the site by searching for "Rainbow Badge Accreditation Report".

Trusts are scored on things like ensuring the word Mother isn't used (at least not without other gender neutral descriptors) in any maternity policies for instance. Or that clinical services are renamed to erase gendered language eg instead of a sign saying Gynaecology clinic there will be a sign saying Colposcopy clinic. How many people even know what a colposcopy is? And of course much more than just colposcopy goes on in a gynae clinic. And technically it is still gendered as no man will ever have a colposcopy it's just that they don't know what it is.

It makes a mockery of the government having a women's health strategy. Sometimes if I'm bored I randomly look at trust websites to see if they have a women's health department - mine used to but suddenly it became Family and Specialist Services Division. Try it. Look at the A-Z and see if there is anything under W : Woman - the vast majority don't although some still do.

In fact recently I was very interested to note one of the Consultant Gynaecologists signing herself off in a letter as:
Miss xxx
Consultant Gynaecological Oncology Surgeon
Women's and Children's Division.

I don't recognise her name and wonder if she is new or maybe she didn't get the message about the women's division being dismantled (in 2020). I'm hoping she's a massive Terf making her point. No pronouns for her!

Anyway whatever happens to stonewall their toxic legacy will carry on under other guises for a long time yet.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbowbadgeeschemephasee2#incoming-2656767

lonelywater · 18/05/2024 17:41

the signs are somewhat encouraging, however, to quote someone else "I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure".

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 18/05/2024 18:15

FannyCann · 18/05/2024 14:53

I'm not celebrating yet.
The gender cult is like a hydra - cut off one head but there are plenty more and they keep replicating.

There are loads of organisations that they have spawned carrying on doing the good work.

I have discovered today that the NHS Rainbow badge scheme which had previously been reported as being quietly shut down is carrying on full steam ahead.

From the FOI:

"The scheme is ongoing. The up-to-date list of participating Trusts is given in Table 1, below.
The budget for the NHS Rainbow Badge project in 2023/24 was £143,000.
NHS England will be managing the scheme, and will continue to support the
scheme in 2024/25."

You can check the list of trusts involved in the FOI to see if your local trust is in the scheme.

Many of the trusts have supplied their 2023 accreditation report in response to FOIs requesting them, which can also be found on the site by searching for "Rainbow Badge Accreditation Report".

Trusts are scored on things like ensuring the word Mother isn't used (at least not without other gender neutral descriptors) in any maternity policies for instance. Or that clinical services are renamed to erase gendered language eg instead of a sign saying Gynaecology clinic there will be a sign saying Colposcopy clinic. How many people even know what a colposcopy is? And of course much more than just colposcopy goes on in a gynae clinic. And technically it is still gendered as no man will ever have a colposcopy it's just that they don't know what it is.

It makes a mockery of the government having a women's health strategy. Sometimes if I'm bored I randomly look at trust websites to see if they have a women's health department - mine used to but suddenly it became Family and Specialist Services Division. Try it. Look at the A-Z and see if there is anything under W : Woman - the vast majority don't although some still do.

In fact recently I was very interested to note one of the Consultant Gynaecologists signing herself off in a letter as:
Miss xxx
Consultant Gynaecological Oncology Surgeon
Women's and Children's Division.

I don't recognise her name and wonder if she is new or maybe she didn't get the message about the women's division being dismantled (in 2020). I'm hoping she's a massive Terf making her point. No pronouns for her!

Anyway whatever happens to stonewall their toxic legacy will carry on under other guises for a long time yet.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbowbadgeeschemephasee2#incoming-2656767

Well that's totally depressing!

I can't believe the poverty stricken NHS is continuing to spunk cash on this ideological nonsense.

Can we report this to Kemi in her call for evidence (I know that is specifically about single sex spaces, but I can't imagine anywhere that bans the word 'mother' will have the right idea about that either).

lcakethereforeIam · 15/10/2024 13:56

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd breathe some life into this one < sniff? Sprays Febreeze>. There! Perfectly fresh.

The Telegraph are reporting again on the decline of Stonewall

https://archive.ph/p2GYL Cross the paywall

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/15/stonewall-diversity-champions-trans-lgbt-charity-workplace/

I'm still not celebrating.

How the Stonewall gravy train came to an end

As high-profile organisations cut ties with the influential LGBT charity, criticism is mounting against its pervasive gender ideologies

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/15/stonewall-diversity-champions-trans-lgbt-charity-workplace

Datun · 15/10/2024 17:35

“The whole thing has become akin to some sort of protection racket.”

I think women on here were writing that exact sentence at least eight years ago

EasternStandard · 15/10/2024 17:39

I hope so but it’s hard as very poor legislation underpins the ideology

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