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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Government tells schools to teach “biological sex” and contest gender “ideology”: do you support this? YouGov Daily survey

38 replies

IwantToRetire · 16/05/2024 00:19

Should school children be taught that it is possible to change gender?

  • 53% agree wrong being taught radical or baseless theories about sex and gender
  • 49% agree teach 2 sexes and gender identity a contested topic
  • 53% agree should not be taught possible to change gender
  • 41% agree should not be taught gender identity different to biological sex

But 49% say Government proposal politically motivated!

https://www.yougov.chat/

YouGov Chat - What The World Thinks

Join today and share your views on all the latest global events and news to understand how people view the world..

https://www.yougov.chat

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theilltemperedclavecinist · 18/05/2024 09:20

Here's the relevant part.

Government tells schools to teach “biological sex” and contest gender “ideology”: do you support this? YouGov Daily survey
Signalbox · 18/05/2024 09:21

It looks like it’s a live poll so the figures quoted above are changing all the time.

SinnerBoy · 18/05/2024 10:19

Nellodee · Today 06:17

You’re only giving one half of the results. If 53% say they don’t think you should teach that you can change gender, that doesn’t mean 47% disagree with that position.

Yes, I was wondering about the other answers, too.

I set up a YouGov account, but nothing happens when I click on the story / chat.

Signalbox · 18/05/2024 10:42

SinnerBoy · 18/05/2024 10:19

Nellodee · Today 06:17

You’re only giving one half of the results. If 53% say they don’t think you should teach that you can change gender, that doesn’t mean 47% disagree with that position.

Yes, I was wondering about the other answers, too.

I set up a YouGov account, but nothing happens when I click on the story / chat.

First question is...

After a government review, schools in England won't be allowed to teach sex education to children under nine. The review went ahead after Rishi Sunak said some young students were being taught "inappropriate content". Do you think this is generally a good or bad idea?

Live results

Good 62%
Bad 32%
Not sure 6%

Another question is...

The new guidance set out by education minister Gillian Keegan will advise schools to teach that there are two biological sexes, and that gender "ideology" should be taught as a contested topic. Do you generally support or oppose this guidance?

Live Results

Strongly support 50%
Tend to support 16%
Tend to oppose 14%
Strongly oppose 17%
Not sure 3%

There's around 9 questions in total.

There is also a warning up saying "the poll results you see throughout this chat are live and therefore do not reliably represent public opinion."

Signalbox · 18/05/2024 10:44

SinnerBoy · 18/05/2024 10:19

Nellodee · Today 06:17

You’re only giving one half of the results. If 53% say they don’t think you should teach that you can change gender, that doesn’t mean 47% disagree with that position.

Yes, I was wondering about the other answers, too.

I set up a YouGov account, but nothing happens when I click on the story / chat.

When you click on the link in the OP if you scroll down to this pic and click on it that should take you to the poll...

Government tells schools to teach “biological sex” and contest gender “ideology”: do you support this? YouGov Daily survey
endofthelinefinally · 18/05/2024 10:49

Decades ago the common expression used was "sex change". I suppose that sowed the seed in people's minds that changing sex was possible. (I am old enough to remember all the discussion about April Ashley).

jellyfrizz · 18/05/2024 10:55

I suspect many of the public think you can be born one sex (which they would call biological sex) and become another.

I don't think many people think you can actually change sex, just that you can pass for the opposite sex and then really what does it matter?

It's only when you think about it a bit more that you see that in some cases it really does matter; sport, health etc.

I think the 'no debate' and 'transphobic to question' stance meant that people were/are afraid to ask the obvious questions once they think a bit more about it.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 18/05/2024 12:06

The Guardian's take:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/17/sex-education-political-football-childrens-sake-adults-grow-up

... contrary to some early headlines, it’s not quite the new section 28. Teachers won’t actually be banned from covering trans identities full stop: they will be explicitly required to cover the legal process for transitioning and the protection against discrimination equality law gives to people undergoing gender reassignment. But crucially, they will be banned from teaching the broader concept of “gender ideology” – the idea that people have a gender identity that might differ from their biological sex, which underpins trans identities – unless directly asked by pupils, and even then they will have to explain that it’s contested (in other words, that some people don’t believe in it). They’ll be obliged to teach “facts about biological sex” and banned from using materials suggesting that gender lies on a spectrum or is determined by stereotypical interests such as wearing pink or playing with dolls – to the extent, of course, that any school ever did.

Though all this arguably brings schools into line with an outside world where an adult’s right to express gender-critical beliefs in the workplace has been upheld by the courts, it leaves teachers walking a gossamer-thin tightrope.

Should pupils be allowed to insist that boys can’t really become girls? What if there’s a vulnerable trans girl in the class, or trans teacher in the school? At best this will be a task for highly skilled specialists, benefiting from the kind of extra training and support that ministers conspicuously aren’t offering here. Not for the first time, schools are being asked, somehow magically, to resolve an issue that has defeated wider society, or, at the very least, sweep the pieces tidily under the carpet, without the tools to do so.

Sex education is now just another political football. For the children’s sake, the adults must grow up | Gaby Hinsliff

Teenagers need and want good information about sex. The government’s review, and this ideological tug-of-war, is failing them, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/17/sex-education-political-football-childrens-sake-adults-grow-up

MsGoodenough · 18/05/2024 12:09

Should pupils be allowed to insist that boys can’t really become girls?

yes!

theilltemperedclavecinist · 18/05/2024 12:47

MsGoodenough · 18/05/2024 12:09

Should pupils be allowed to insist that boys can’t really become girls?

yes!

I'm less bothered about the metaphysics than the actual biology. What's wrong with saying 'some people want gender reassignment' and leave their motives out of it. Talking at length about an ideology then saying 'not everybody believes in it' seems like a roundabout way of saying that the trans person is doing a foolish thing.

The thing that worries me most is that children could be left with the impression that true gender reassignment is possible (Keegan on Today seemed to think so) and therefore they can choose their own sex as an adult. Primary age children still have an evolving concept of sex (and everything else. Remember, you can persuade a child you gave her more juice by pouring it into a taller, thinner glass.). So this idea needs stamping out early.

What they need to absorb, somehow, is that the technology does not and cannot exist to, say, turn a man into a woman. It's cosmetic surgery. You won't be able to have sex and reproduce like a woman, and people will still be able to tell you aren't one.

SinnerBoy · 18/05/2024 12:51

Signalbox · Today 10:42

Thanks. I did find the text and clicked all over it and the photo, with no result.

Nellodee · 18/05/2024 16:11

Sorry, I didn’t mean my post to sound so accusatory, I made it pre coffee! Thanks for the additional info.

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