Cis is now labelled as a possible slur on X

[User1979289]

https://twitter.com/xdaily/status/1790714602101285101

It is meaningless

Good. I am a woman. There is no sub-category of that fact.

😂🤷‍♀️

Ah, that explains it. I followed a link to something on Twitter and they were using 'c1s'. I did wonder, at the time, why they were doing that.

It has a wider use in the sense that it is often used sloppily. Sloppy thinking leads to bad ideas. Like this one.

This business about one group or another not liking certain words, even though there is nothing actually inherently offensive, almost always is ineffective in practice. I can't think of one instance where you actually find all members of the group in agreement. For it to work as a concept it means reducing individuals to group membership. And very often it's about a kind of offense politics too, where the person who is most offended gets to control the narrative and direction of policy. It's always interesting to see which members of said group benefit from that.

Sex may be an "observable fact" but not everyone agrees on how important it is, or how it should be represented in language. That's the crux of the whole controversy. People are allowed to have views on those things, and even wrongheaded views on biology, and express them. Unless you are into authoritarian speech control.

It really shouldn't be difficult to think about what the implications are if the dominant narrative can decide what other people can say and think about human nature. Eve if the other people happen to be wrong. (Which of course we should never take for granted.)

Tempest - re "people are entitled to their ideologies, and to describe the world in the way they think is accurate"

Sure and they can describe THEMSELVES as Transgender every day of their lives.

They just can't describe ME as Cisgender, because I don't belive in gender feels and I don't have a gender identity, least of all one which is in accordance with pink and glittery girly feelz.

"Sex may be an "observable fact" but not everyone agrees on (...) how it should be represented in language."

Assuming that you are referring to English language, your statement is verifiably false.

There has never been any doubt since that He refers to members of the male sex class and that She refers to members of the female sex class in the history of the English language, regardless of feelings in their heads.

As long as I can call men men I don't mind if genderists want to use their in-group jargon about me. It's completely meaningless.

This business about one group or another not liking certain words, even though there is nothing actually inherently offensive, almost always is ineffective in practice.
There are some very obvious examples of words that used to be used for ethnic groups, which were not inherently offensive but which became unacceptable and are now never used. In fact, using them now would be described 'a slur'.

I can't think of one instance where you actually find all members of the group in agreement.
I agree with you. Every group has some members who aren't bothered what you call them as long as you don't call them too early in the morning. Which is why I used the phrase 'It is the settled opinion of the group concerned', which is different from unanimity.

People are allowed to have views on those things, and even wrongheaded views on biology, and express them.
Express wrongheaded views on biology to your heart's content! But as you said 'Sloppy thinking leads to bad ideas' so you'd probably agree that it's best to base one's views on observable facts.

Unless you are into authoritarian speech control.
I'm certainly not into imposing the term 'cis' on people who don't like it, don't agree with it, contest its meaning and find it offensive. Insisting on using it regardless seems pretty controlling and authoritarian.

I think this is where I stand too. I've read everyone's comments but basically, I really don't care if people want to call me a nonsensical, made up name, just as long as I'm not compelled to go along with it in any way.

Possibly you've noticed that there are people who are going around using terms like "cis" and think that words like woman or man refer to something they call gender, rather than sex.

That's a disagreement about the meaning of what those words mean and how they relate to sex.

I'm really not sure how you would claim that no such controversy exists, it's what the thread is about. Unless you have some totally different definition of "false" or "verifiably."

Other people are allowed to have beliefs and ideas about other people that you do not agree with. They are allowed to think that you have a soul, or are oppressed by the patriarchy, or your aura needs to be cleaned, or that you might have been injected with nanobots when you were vaccinated, or any other idea plausible or implausible. They are also allowed to think that you, and every other person around, has a gender identity.

Other people are allowed to speak about the world, and other people, in a way that reflects what they believe is the nature of reality.

As soon as you start telling people they cannot speak about what they think is reality, you are in a very dangerous position. Do you really not think there could ever be a time when what you think is real is seen as wrong, regressive, and even deeply offensive? You can't maybe stretch yourself to think of any recent examples of that kind of thing.

I am pretty disgusted to be honest that after the years here of making arguments about the necessity for people to be able to speak the truth as they see it, and the fat that people who disagree and feel threaded or offended about it need to suck it up and be adults, as soon as the tables are turned even a little bit they revert to language control and trying to force people to accept the new dominant narrative.

I had rather hoped that many women who had considered themselves on the left had had their eyes opened to that particular failing, which would make for a much stronger political culture going forward, but I guess not.

CWAW - Cis women are women!

No need for the word cis if there is no need for the word trans.

I think you're right, @TempestTost, but I confess my first reaction is one of Schadenfreude. Those who made politics all about rhetoric are such utter, utter fools.

yes yes YES!!!!

This thread is more "be kind" posts
calling women cis is a slur. It's more of the same wedging women out of our own words and spaces.

Transgender people want to drop the ‘Trans’ prefix and just call themselves women. So they need real women to have a prefix.

It’s not subtle nor innocuous, it’s insidious creep.

Good, because it is. I'm a woman, not a subset of my own sex.

To me it's not a slur, but it is an ideological term on the other end of the ideological spectrum to T*M (which were are not allowed to say).

The problem with 'cis' is:

It normalises the idea that women can be female or male, eg 'woman' is a social identity rather than a biological fact.

It implies 'cis women' are all signed up to the stereotypes, including regressive and oppressive ones, associated with the social role of 'woman'. The only way to defy those stereotypes being to identify out of being a woman. Which is where non-binary comes in.

No, I'm not being kind, I just believe that adults should have the right to believe in and to say stupid things if they so choose.
No-one should be forced to go along with their beliefs and society should not be rearranged in accordance with their beliefs, but I have no wish to stop them believing or talking about it.

It's like I'm not offended if someone says to me, 'The Lord be with you, Flo' just as long as they don't require me to chant something back.

It's like I'm not offended if someone says to me, 'The Lord be with you, Flo' just as long as they don't require me to chant something back.

'The Lord be with you' is not deliberate manipulation of language in order to change the meaning of words though.

As PPs have said, 'cis' is.

I am not a 'cis woman', and I object to being called one.

Sex may be an "observable fact" but not everyone agrees on how important it is, or how it should be represented in language.

It IS an observable fact and there in the English language there is no disagreement!

A biological Male is He and a biological Female is She.

It normalises the idea that women can be female or male

What?

I hope that will never happen!

If a woman feels like she has a 'magical gendered soul' that is a female soul thus matching her body, then she can call herself 'cis' until the cows come home.

I do not have one. I do not believe in gender identity ideology.

I find it insulting to be called 'cis' I do not want the regressive labels of a neo-religion inflicted on me. I do not want to be pressured into using this language to describe myself by violent TRAs, 'be kind' hand maidens or anyone else.

It is offensive, it is regressive, it is demeaning and it signals kowtowing to horrifically sexist ideas about what a woman is. I am not 'dead eyes, an open mouth and an expectant anus' it is a slur because that is what they want to replace 'adult human female' with and those are the charactersitics of a cis soul (someone who is fucked and no more than that.)

First, remember that "cis" is not actually banned. It can be used as an insult but that's not the main problem with it.
It's not a useful word unless you are a genderist. Genderists can describe themselves or fellow believers as "cis" but not others who are outside the belief group. Because "Cis" says something about your beliefs. It says that you believe in gender ideology and if used about you, it says that you subscribe to feminine/masculine gender stereotypes. Nobody else can tell you what you believe. That's why it's not comparable to "man/male". Words about sex are descriptive and the description can be objectively verified.

Good stuff. I am a woman. I am not 'cis' anything, it's meaningless nonsense used by people seeking to make women a subcategory of their own sex. I have no respect for anyone who uses it.

Classing "Cis" as a potential slur on TwiX doesn't prevent anybody making an argument or expressing their beliefs on TwiX. A MCW can still claim to be a woman, call himself a woman. Genderists can still say that they believe that other people are "Cis" and (I assume) they can still talk about "Cis people" in general.
The equivalent of "male/man" etc is "non-trans". It's still ridiculous and mildly offensive to be described in opposition to the miniscule minority but it is a descriptive term.