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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tribunal Judge accused of bullying and misogyny

16 replies

IcakethereforeIam · 26/04/2024 09:50

Came across this while reading something else. Absolutely shocking but also totally unsurprising

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68877823

Judge Philip Lancaster

Tribunal judge accused of bullying and misogyny

Five women have told the BBC about Judge Philip Lancaster's behaviour at employment tribunal hearings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68877823

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Terref · 26/04/2024 09:53

And it seems quite hard to flag or counter or raise concerns.

nauticant · 26/04/2024 11:12

An interesting bit of detail:

Since November 2023, audio from employment tribunal cases has been routinely recorded in England and Wales.

StealthSpinach · 26/04/2024 11:12

Interesting fact from the article:

“Since November 2023, audio from employment tribunal cases has been routinely recorded in England and Wales.
But at the time these cases were brought (between 2018 and 2022), the judge's written notes of proceedings were treated as the official court record of employment tribunal hearings.”

Terref · 26/04/2024 11:13

nauticant · 26/04/2024 11:12

An interesting bit of detail:

Since November 2023, audio from employment tribunal cases has been routinely recorded in England and Wales.

Ooh. Is it obtainable by FOI, I wonder?

dolorsit · 26/04/2024 11:53

I think to hear the recordings you need be in person and in the presence of a court official.

I suspect that you would need to have some involvement in the case to be allowed to hear the recording.

maltravers · 26/04/2024 11:59

dolorsit · 26/04/2024 11:53

I think to hear the recordings you need be in person and in the presence of a court official.

I suspect that you would need to have some involvement in the case to be allowed to hear the recording.

So much for Open Justice…

IcakethereforeIam · 26/04/2024 12:12

I thought there used to be a court person who took notes through out the trial*, this was replaced by recordings because of austerity. Hence the huge amount it now costs to get a recording. I think ScotGov have made getting a transcript foc, or they want to.

*not 100% sure about this.

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SinnerBoy · 26/04/2024 12:21

IcakethereforeIam

A stenographer. The first woman's barrister made notes, to the effect that he shouted at her 16 times over 3 days.

An appeal tribunal said that there had been "serious material procedural irregularities" during the hearing, including "a significant number of occasions when the judge intervened to prevent questioning of the respondent's witnesses".

Reading this, among other things, surely every case he's presided over ought to be re-examined? He sounds like an absolute horror show.

NonLinguisticRhetoricIsMyKryptonite · 26/04/2024 12:21

maltravers · 26/04/2024 11:59

So much for Open Justice…

I know! So many courts in lots of US jurisdictions livestream their proceedings on YouTube and they can be fascinating. From landlord tenant disputes, traffic, family court, to high-profile criminal trials.

Some states even livestream their parole hearings.

IcakethereforeIam · 26/04/2024 12:25

There's that activist judge too...Tan something.

Stenographer, thank you, were they only used for certain types of trial?

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 26/04/2024 14:54

maltravers · 26/04/2024 11:59

So much for Open Justice…

If you had to give evidence about sexual harassment, would you want it to be available to any perve on the internet, so that he could get off on your discomfort?

maltravers · 26/04/2024 15:40

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 26/04/2024 14:54

If you had to give evidence about sexual harassment, would you want it to be available to any perve on the internet, so that he could get off on your discomfort?

Most employment tribunals are open to the public I understand. This is a case of maternity discrimination I believe - I see no reason why there should be restrictions on its online availability given the nature of the case and that it is supposed to be “open”. There may be other cases where this would not be appropriate, but generally justice should be “seen to be done” unless there are compelling reasons otherwise.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 26/04/2024 16:22

maltravers · 26/04/2024 15:40

Most employment tribunals are open to the public I understand. This is a case of maternity discrimination I believe - I see no reason why there should be restrictions on its online availability given the nature of the case and that it is supposed to be “open”. There may be other cases where this would not be appropriate, but generally justice should be “seen to be done” unless there are compelling reasons otherwise.

Why would ETs be different from all other types of court and tribunal? You can attend hearings contemporaneously in person or - if they are virtual - online. But you can't obtain recordings of them.

Think of the likely consequences for potential claimants, if their evidence were to be recorded and available to all. It's stressful and intimidating for them as it is - the process already deters lots of potential claims. Evidence given is often highly sensitive, because people who have been bullied or discriminated against tend to feel ashamed. The prospect of having internet trolls pick over what they have said would be a huge barrier to obtaining justice and would revictimise them.

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