Separate out the LGB and the TGD

[StealthSpinach]

In a post from an “anonymous” transperson in response to the Cass Review, the groups of LGB (Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual) and TGD (Transgender and Gender Diverse) were referred to several times.

I think these are actually useful and accurate groupings, and shall be using them going forward.

LGB = sexuality
TGD = transgender and gender diverse = identity/personality/self image

Thank you to the anonymous transgender person who employed this term and acronym for the first time I have seen - this distinction makes sense in my brain, and will help me communicate my thoughts and words more succinctly.

👍🏻💚🤍💜

I absolutely agree. These two groups have very little in common

I’m not sure. Gender diverse could include gender non-conforming people, most of whom seem to be GC. It also implies that everyone in the LGB group is gender-conforming, which isn’t true. To me, it seems like another attempt to paint GC people as regressive when, actually, people who are focussed on gender are the regressive ones.

I know a number of trans people, but only one of those is what I’d call trans (has severe gender dysphoria). The rest seem to be people in thrall to gender stereotypes and trying to be special by joining what they perceive to be the cool club who most definitely wouldn’t have been in the trans group before.

'It also implies that everyone in the LGB group is gender-conforming'

No, it doesn't. These are two entirely separate categories with entirely separate criteria. The first grouping/set relates to sexuality, the second to how far one conforms to social stereotyping.

Membership of one set implies nothing at all about membership of the other set.

It's never made sense to bolt them all together.

I think “TGD” is too wide a grouping. Everyone is gender diverse, to the extent that they are neither Barbie nor GI Joe.

Gebder dysphoric is a slightly better term, but I think we should be promoting “sex dysphoric” instead. If you reject your body’s sex, you are sex dysphoric. If you are uncomfortable with your gender, I.e. with the social expectations thrust upon you on the basis of your sex, that’s entirely normal and understandable.

I agree, the LGB group has been a bit taken over by the TGD (straight gender non-conforming) and have lost their identity.

the following definitions are from Google and the LGB is getting swamped and diminished in their own category:

'LGBTIQA+' is an evolving acronym that stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, queer/questioning, asexual.

LGBTQQIP2SA: any combination of letters attempting to represent all the identities in the queer community, this near-exhaustive one (but not exhaustive) represents Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Pansexual, Two-Spirited, and Asexual.

As with all things related to gender ideology, the terminology is as clear as mud.

Stonewall's definition of 'trans' includes "transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman, trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois."

It looks as though some want to differentiate between identifying as the opposite sex to one's biological sex (transgender) and having a gender identity other than crossing from one side of a binary to the other (gender diverse).

I'm not sure whether it's possible any longer to use 'gender diverse' to mean 'not conforming to gender stereotypes'.

But separating sexual orientation from gender-idemtification would definitely be a good thing.

Gender non-conforming doesn't mean you believe in gender identify BS. It doesn't make you trans or not-trans. It's irrelevant. The groupings seem clear to me.

Maybe LGB and T+

Bloody hell to me those lists just show how much self absorption and navel gazing goes on in these communities. Time they left their bedrooms!!

I suppose I thought of it from the perspective of not having a “gender”. I am quite simply a female - no gender descriptor required or desired. In that respect, it makes complete sense to me to have those 2 concepts of sexuality and gender ideology/identity as distinct groups.

Does "gender diverse" mean gender non-conforming? I thought it meant things like alembi-gender and big ender and non-non-binary and all.

Maybe the easiest way to identify the groups is Realists and Fantasists - those who understand and believe in the objective reality of biological sex, and those who think their magical thinking can transform everything from their own biology to the views of the entire universe around them.

Stonewall's definition of 'trans' includes "transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman, trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois."

That list arguably includes me, though I don’t care enough to decide whether I’m non-binary, genderless, agender or nongender. And I’m wearing women’s shoes so I’m a crossdresser (they are very ordinary “sensible” shoes which happen to fit better than those designed for men).

One could make a case for Stonewall’s definition of ‘trans’ to include everyone. They are not putting forward a serious agenda, but people mostly don’t care enough to point that out.

Yes, it does. The vast majority of people are gender diverse. Making a special group of people who are TGD implies that they are different and being separated from others because they’re gender diverse and so, by implication the people in the other group aren’t. That’s playing into the hands of the TRA narrative and, equally as important, simply incorrect.

I know! That’s what I said. Most ‘gender diverse’ people are GNC, so the groupings don’t make sense.

Simply having LGB and a separate T would be better.

Yes, it includes GNC apparently. I once had a long chat with a trans person in order to exchange views. They consider themselves GNC (as well as a string of NB, masc, something gender, etc) and that’s a big part of their identity. I then spent fruitless time trying to explain my POV, which was that thinking you’re NB/Demi/trans whatever because you don’t conform to the stereotypes associated with your sex, is actually reinforcing the stereotypes.