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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Thread 2: A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet

1000 replies

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 22/04/2024 23:22

At fewer than 20 posts left, time for part two.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057460-a-corpus-assisted-discourse-analysis-of-linguistic-transphobia-on-mumsnet

Site Stuff thread that tipped off MNHQ: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5057903-mumsnet-corpus

A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet | Mumsnet

^By Aston Institute for Forensic Linguistics^ ^It has been suggested that the forum-style parenting website Mumsnet is a hub for ‘gender-critical’...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057460-a-corpus-assisted-discourse-analysis-of-linguistic-transphobia-on-mumsnet

OP posts:
Thread gallery
111
DrBlackbird · 23/04/2024 17:22

RoyalCorgi · 23/04/2024 14:58

That sounds like quite a challenge to me. Much of what trans activists refer to as "transphobia" rests on the idea of the dogwhistle - namely that the language you use may appear innocent, but in reality is a sinister code signalling bigotry. Phrases such as "biological female", "sex matters", "adult human female" and "safeguarding" are all dogwhistles. I'm not an expert on linguistics, but I imagine this would present an obstacle for the researcher wanting to demonstrate a rise in the use of transphobic language on Mumsnet.

The research seems to be about how language use that the student deems to be transphobic spreads and evolves within a speech community. So one super important thing the student needs to do is define transphobic language. We don’t have to agree with whatever definition they come up with to be able to follow and understand the research. That definition does need to make logical sense and also be workable.

But surely it goes beyond just defining transphobic language or agreeing or disagreeing. Given the premise of the dissertation that the words and phrases used by MN FWR posters are (already) judged to be transphobic, words and phrases made by anonymous forum users, this definitely implies Eden’s judgement of motivation that is being attributed to the poster. That’s an analytical slippery slope, which would be interesting to hear/read in terms of explaining and justifying methodology. How do you attribute motivation? Unless the poster has said "I hate these [insert group] people", how does one infer intent?

This is what would’ve been interesting to hear about had the seminar gone ahead. Whereas now presumably the complaint bandied about the Aston FL staff lounge is that the seminar had to be cancelled because of the bitchy women of MN who would’ve been horrible to Eden.

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 17:32

FeckOffAstonUniversityDoxingDepartment · 23/04/2024 14:08

You know how airports have 3 letter codes? Google Malaga’s code.

Accelerated Graphics Port, a high-speed point-to-point channel for attaching a graphics card to a computer's motherboard.

Is this an umbilical reference? Confused

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 23/04/2024 17:36

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 17:32

Accelerated Graphics Port, a high-speed point-to-point channel for attaching a graphics card to a computer's motherboard.

Is this an umbilical reference? Confused

It's the slot we had for graphics cards after PCI but before PCI-express came in.

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 17:39

Aston Uni have responded and offered a call with their Vice Chancellor to explain the reasons for the research, how they manage ethical approval and protect privacy and data.

That's convenient "a call". Nothing in writing.

Would love to listen in on that and see if whoever the VC is think they can placate these hysterical women presuming to intervene in their highly esteemed work!

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 17:44

Now I am really Sad

I was expecting plaudits and likes for my motherboard attachment umbilical joke.

Football own goal?

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 17:53

Have only (it has taken at least an hour) to read through thread 2 as my collection of recent posts show.

re cancellation due to illness - bet they thought that would guilt trip all the "mums".

Its just cowardice. They didn't want to admit that maybe a bit more over sight was needed to ensure that something that exposed one of their students and their tutor and the university to ridicule, was their fault.

With any luck Eden will now sue the University for not safeguarding her and being exploited by a supervisor who tried to use her to promote the supervisor's own extreme beliefs. And the supervisor reported to the Prevent programme as in need of deradicalising.

AstonsDataThief · 23/04/2024 17:56

I hope Justine has her lawyer join in the call.

WitchyWitcherson · 23/04/2024 17:59

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 17:53

Have only (it has taken at least an hour) to read through thread 2 as my collection of recent posts show.

re cancellation due to illness - bet they thought that would guilt trip all the "mums".

Its just cowardice. They didn't want to admit that maybe a bit more over sight was needed to ensure that something that exposed one of their students and their tutor and the university to ridicule, was their fault.

With any luck Eden will now sue the University for not safeguarding her and being exploited by a supervisor who tried to use her to promote the supervisor's own extreme beliefs. And the supervisor reported to the Prevent programme as in need of deradicalising.

To be a bit fair to Eden (on the sickness thing) I read somewhere that the belief that language can be "unsafe" can actually cause real distress. I do wonder if she thinks she's "unsafe" or something like that, simply because that's the discourse gender ideologists use. I mean she obviously thinks that mumsnet is a den of transphobic hate crime (when to any rational person, most of the conversations here are people showing concern for the rights and safeguarding needs of women and children).

"Trans women are not women" is to transphobia as "I don't believe the Qu'ran to hold any truth" is to Islamophobia.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:02

I have no patience for people who use hyperbole about not being "safe" due to hearing other people's opinions about their own lives and human rights as a marginalised group, and I don't think it's a legitimate objection. It's cry bullying, manipulative language. I'm not saying that's what Eden Palmer has said.

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 18:03

Have just seen this:

Oops - 404 ErrorSorry, we can't find https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/about-us/our-staff/m/nicci-macleod/^^ on our site.

Don't worry though, we will help you get to the right place

https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/about-us/our-staff/m/nicci-macleod/

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2024 18:03

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 17:39

Aston Uni have responded and offered a call with their Vice Chancellor to explain the reasons for the research, how they manage ethical approval and protect privacy and data.

That's convenient "a call". Nothing in writing.

Would love to listen in on that and see if whoever the VC is think they can placate these hysterical women presuming to intervene in their highly esteemed work!

It sounds like they think they can just talk their way out of it and it'll all be ok.

Ok sorry but this then leaves MN with potential legal liabilities and totally undermines the law and the ICO.

No. This should not be allowed to just be talked away because it suits Aston. They should be asking for consent and doing things properly and ethically. Not trying to circumnavigative after the fact.

Otherwise it leaves MN open to every other chancery who tries the same.

WitchyWitcherson · 23/04/2024 18:05

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:02

I have no patience for people who use hyperbole about not being "safe" due to hearing other people's opinions about their own lives and human rights as a marginalised group, and I don't think it's a legitimate objection. It's cry bullying, manipulative language. I'm not saying that's what Eden Palmer has said.

Agree, also not saying Eden has said she's unsafe. Just a hypothetical situation.

I'm just saying that the hyperbolic "I'm unsafe!" claims relating to use of perfectly factual statements such as "sex is binary" is so prevalent amongst TRAs that some of the cohort - especially younger people I expect - will have increased anxiety and perception of "not being safe".

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're out to get you" was a phrase I heard a lot in my teens. Seems to be forgotten these days!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:07

There comes a point where you have to tell these people no, @WitchyWitcherson. It should happen much more often, and should have happened much earlier.

NonLinguisticRhetoricIsMyKryptonite · 23/04/2024 18:08

IwantToRetire · 23/04/2024 18:03

Have just seen this:

Oops - 404 ErrorSorry, we can't find https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/about-us/our-staff/m/nicci-macleod/^^ on our site.

Don't worry though, we will help you get to the right place

https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/about-us/our-staff/m/nicci-macleod/

She's here:

https://research.aston.ac.uk/en/persons/nicci-macleod

No idea about the other post and if she's no longer affiliated there.

Nicci MacLeod

https://research.aston.ac.uk/en/persons/nicci-macleod

Igmum · 23/04/2024 18:09

@Boiledbeetle that is not a genuine Tunnocks tea cake. She should definitely LTB.

FeckOffAstonUniversityDoxingDepartment · 23/04/2024 18:12

Tbf to Eden I have also felt sick after inadvertently finding myself at the centre of a drama.

Mine didn’t affect the credibility of a university research centre with an 11 million quid grant, mind you.

GCLabRat · 23/04/2024 18:13

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:07

There comes a point where you have to tell these people no, @WitchyWitcherson. It should happen much more often, and should have happened much earlier.

Cge parnter sat on keyburd...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:14

Name change fail? Grin

Boiledbeetle · 23/04/2024 18:15

Igmum · 23/04/2024 18:09

@Boiledbeetle that is not a genuine Tunnocks tea cake. She should definitely LTB.

I know, she was definitely conned into it I reckon. Bet he told her he could change! that it wasn't all about looks etc. When in reality he's just a cheap knock off!

WitchyWitcherson · 23/04/2024 18:15

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:07

There comes a point where you have to tell these people no, @WitchyWitcherson. It should happen much more often, and should have happened much earlier.

Absolutely!

I'm not saying we should tone ourselves down at all, just speculating that the "illness" might be genuinely felt anxiety about the situation - given her perception of us that we're awful nasty horrible transphobic bigots that contribute to some kind of real-world harm.

Eden is most certainly not unsafe. She's been fed an ideology that's going to contribute to feeling unsafe since, according to the ideology, words are violence etc.

WitchyWitcherson · 23/04/2024 18:16

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:14

Name change fail? Grin

Don't know what you're talking about 😝🐭

Boiledbeetle · 23/04/2024 18:17

I didn't see anything! Honestly! But that rat should learn to lock his computer when he's away from his desk.

GCLabRat · 23/04/2024 18:20

I turns bak fr wun minit... onistlee!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2024 18:20
Grin
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