Transphobia at Edinburgh University ‘driving out staff’

[Igneococcus]

Times Scotland today, both sides vicious, yada yada.

"Katie Nicoll Baines, a geneticist who is a feminist activist and co-chairs Edinburgh’s Staff Pride Network, blamed gender-critical colleagues for what she called a “growing culture of hostility”.
She said: “I have worked at the University of Edinburgh since 2017 and in the past seven years have witnessed a growing culture of hostility towards trans and non-binary staff and students at this institution. Much of this hostility has been stoked by those who want to spread their ‘gender-critical’ ideology that is largely based on the premise that sex is binary and immutable, a premise I know to be incorrect, both scientifically [and] based on my academic expertise.
“While these gender-critical colleagues have been the ones to stoke this hostility, by inviting transphobic speakers on to campus, screening films that are filled with anti-trans misinformation and propaganda, etc, it is the failures of university management that have enabled this hostility to go unchecked and [often] it has been enabled by the structures of the university organisation that perpetuate discrimination against our trans and non-binary staff and students.”"

Are there physics departments with outspoken flatearthers? And if not, why not?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1cfa0aeb-ac6a-42e4-a667-829427f1f572?shareToken=5f5780ef3e0eabba2a85129ecdf3f08b

I suppose queer theory has been very effective in that regard. It has queered itself out of existence.

Yes Rosie is male. I was told that when Rosie started at the uni Rosie sent a video of Rosieself giving a ted talk as a man before his transition as his introduction to the department. Within six months of arriving Rosie was co-chair of the LGBT soc and it moved right away from the LGB stuff (mostly G, tbh, the Ls didn't really feature much) to being ALL about the T.

Well what a fucking surprise.

I hear this stuff from my kids from time to time. It seems to be what they teach them at school.

I try and put the kybosh on it, but it's very difficult because I sound like I'm being really insensitive. And I'm not an insensitive person, actually, but my middle child in particular thinks we should just all "be kind."

True, I still think they're a minority at Oxford, mostly in the humanities, and let's not forget Kathleen Stock was allowed to speak. I know a few academics there who have been disappointingly not very outspoken about their GC 'beliefs' (scientific knowledge that sex is binary) - scientists. The problem is there has not been an adult response by the senior management who have given in to tantrums and the most illogical statements about victimhood.

They want foreign money more than anything and my friend says that most foreign students have absolutely no patience for gender woo so in the end the market will probably force sanity to return.

Oxford needs to hang its collective head in shame how they've allowed the gender narcissists to abuse others though. They have colluded to create an environment where children were sterilised. It's not ok.

However, I do think they're probably too big to fail. But a public acknowledgement of the harm they've caused would be good (not holding my breath)

Lol that's a new one - what's loser ideology?

And why is she choosing to remain in such a toxic institution?

If it was genuinely in your genetics. I feel this whole mess would be easy to resolve.

oppressive and, quite frankly, loser ideology

Why are these people so childish?

Within six months of arriving Rosie was co-chair of the LGBT soc and it moved right away from the LGB stuff (mostly G, tbh, the Ls didn't really feature much) to being ALL about the T.

What an astonishingly unusual and uncommon trajectory.

I looked her up on Linked in - is not a ‘geneticist’ as I would necessarily understand it but a social scientist with roots in forensic anthropology. Ie. She is not from a biological sciences background. Her PhD is in the physiology and genetics of muscle aging. Further, the 4 papers she has published are not on anything to do with genetics. I would argue that she misrepresents and overstates her ‘genetics’ expertise.

https://www.research.ed.ac.uk/en/persons/katie-sheher-nicoll-baines/publications/

In other words, every critique of trans ideology can be tweaked and turned around as a defence of trans ideology and an attack on GC bigots who are victimising innocent little TRAs.
I find myself experiencing this as a form of emotional abuse by narcissists [the psychological kind, not the mirror-gazing kind], where absolutely everything becomes part of their narrative that they are the totally right, the totally wronged, the totally important, the total arbiters of truth and reality..

Yes, this specific tactic is known as DARVO - Deny Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. You find that trans activists often use exactly the same words and framing as GC women, regardless of whether it actually makes any sense.

As a parent with son and daughter studying at Edinburgh university - this kind of behaviour and attitude is having a very chilling effect on student support for the trans movement, despite a naturally embracing and accepting student base crowd - there comes a point when the students get sick and tired of the subject, and the endless grandstanding. You can not change your biology - that is understood in primary school. You can work with identity if you want to.

Thanks for reminding me of the ‘Meaning of Liff’ - a Douglas Adam’s Classic! And that face is one I pull many times during the course of a day especially during meetings and presentations 😂

That message that Russell received was absolutely vile. I don't think any reasonable person could argue with that.

Then there are the photos of the tras demonstrating, everyone looks like they're having a grand old time. All smiles.

Thank you, Ereshkigalangcleg, I've been meaning to look up what DARVO means, and you've explained that it means exactly what I wrote!

Yes, absolutely horrible. As bad as the death threats and screaming at that the pro-women people get. It's not ok.

But I bet my house it wasn't a woman who sent it.

They’ve actually started screaming “DAVRO!” At everything that doesn’t 100% agree with them now.

utter bonkers.

Given the state of universities at the moment, I am astounded that any academic would leave a secure post for ideological reasons.

"Are they a geneticist specialising in clown fish?"

I had to laugh at this! But it's the only feasible explanation!

This is exactly the reason. Every time I'm asked to wear a rainbow lanyard to show I'm 'safe' to be around I ask where I can get my lanyards for commuting students or those who can't access our buildings because they have mobility issues.

I just wanted to put in a word for academics in that NAAALT (Not All Academics Are Like That). I work with them and many, if not most, are perfectly normal(ish) people who do amazing stuff. Stuff that literally changes the world for the better. They're absolutely passionate about what they do and it's their life's work.

We hear about the mad ones because that's what hits the headlines/employment tribunals but the vast majority aren't like this at all.

Anyway, as you were.

Yes, this is absolutely essential as this where the future government and judiciary etc are being trained.

Something has to give, that's certain. The whole point of HE is that it builds on something.

This aggressive business model is harmful to the principles of what education actually does. There has also - as anticipated - been a conflation of what was meant by widening participation as opposed to mass participation. The former is ensuring HE is open to those who can derive benefit from it. The latter is a scramble to get bums on seats resulting in a lowering of standards across the board. Vocations like nursing and social work also don't need to be graduate only. That's snobbery talking: the idea that you're only of any value in the labour market if you hold a degree.

Numbers artificially inflated as a result of the drive to get 50% of people through the university system, now as a result of CoL - not least the current state of the sector on a variety of levels - they are dwindling back.

I'd hate to go back to a system when only 7% of the most privileged had access to higher education. We're now seeing the extreme opposite of that position.

What's needed is something in the middle enabling a return to rigorous standards.

I'm not optimistic.

No.

Its really not hard to judge her competence.

We did all this last week on the thread about the open letter from academic against Cass.

The simple fact is that more bums on seats hasn't widened participation these days either. The proportion of bog standard state school successful applications to Oxbridge is relatively low (relative to rich foreigners, private school children etc). Yes, there is weighting applied if you go to the roughest comp and live in the most socioeconomically deprived area in the UK, but if you just live in a normal middle of the road place and go to a state school, the chances you'll achieve the grades someone at a 45k a year private school will achieve with their small class sizes and private tutoring is unlikely.

And even if you do beat the odds and get in, if you - for example - haven't been allowed to take further maths A-level at your state school then you're at a disadvantage relative to the rich kids who have if you're doing a maths related degree. Friend at Oxford says it can be unbelievably hard for state school students surrounded by private school students not to mention accommodation price inflation and general cost of living stress on children whose parents are of normal means.