The end of childhood in Scotland?? (Primary schools asking children from age 4 if they are gay or trans)

[Startinganew07]

From today’s Telegraph: “Scottish primary schools are appointing children as “LGBT champions” and are being urged to ask pupils as young as four if they are gay, lesbian or trans, The Telegraph can reveal.
Documents show that schools are setting up LGBT clubs and “gender and sexual orientation alliance groups” for pupils as part of their membership of a scheme run by the charity LGBT Youth Scotland.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/17/scottish-primary-schools-appoint-children-lgbt-champions/

It's so chuffing sinister, I will be incredulous if at some point criminal charges against schools are not pursued.

Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg, the former business secretary, said: “I do not understand why these organisations want to brainwash children with peculiar ideas. Primary school children should be allowed to live in the innocence of childhood. They will learn soon enough from their contemporaries and parents, who have the principal role.”

Some of us understand all too well why some people might want to sexualise children. Remember P I E?

Parents need to tell these schools to fuck off.

The group involved - LGBT Youth - seem to have a very dodgy past with a senior figure convicted of paedophile offences along with a very murky relationship with the Scottish government if the press are to be believed:
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/minister-accused-heartbreaking-betrayal-sex-28948168

I was always different, from day 1, early gender dysphoria, and that morphed into being gay, and I was therefore theoretically gay at age 4. (The classic target for transing today).
I'm absolutely sure that being asked by someone in primary school how I 'identified' wouldn't have helped me a bit. On the other hand, simply avoiding gender stereotypes in school, treating boys and girls as individual little human beings with different interests and likes and dislikes and ways of being would have made my childhood a whole lot easier.
So my objection to this isn't 'woke-gone-mad', it's 'I don't think this will actually help children like me, based on my experience'.
The anti-bullying aspect is worthwhile, but bullying would also be tackled by teaching that every child is an individual and difference is just part of that.

We have these kinds of clubs at elementary schools in Canada - so from about age 4 to 12, though the students who join tend to be in the 10 to 12 range.

Challenging them would have parents labeled bigots immediately. They also do not tell parents their kids have joined.

If you ask people, they are predicated on the idea that sexual orientation is inborn and immutable, so kids "know" what they are. The idea that our experience of sexuality develops over our teen years (and maybe beyond) tends to be interpreted as bigoted.

@MarieDeGournay thank you for your very helpful perspective.

I saw something I found a bit concerning on a different website in relation to teachers and disclosures around sexuality or identity. The person said that if a pupil made such a disclosure to them, they would be "honoured". The extent to which this issue is generated by inadequate adults who are using children to affirm what a wonderful person they are is very worrying. They don't have the self awareness to understand that this is what they're doing, and it's deeply inappropriate.

100% agree @StephanieSuperpowers and I think there's a lot of them about.

As an aside I used to work with someone who is now on the Board of LGBT Youth Scotland who is an absolute tool. One of only a handful of people who I would never, ever work with or employ again in any capacity ever.

It’s just never-ending ! My mum sent me a link to this story from GB news this morning! It’s as if whatever England do Scotland will do the exact opposite just to prove a point!

I wonder how many schools have signed up to this ? Budgets are tight surely there’s no money to waste on this nonsense? And what do the primary school teachers think of it ? I honestly can’t believe that a majority of Scottish teachers are happy to promote this in school esp primary school!

Shame on the Scottish Govt for promoting this dangerous ideology to our kids 🤬🤬

I just don't understand. "Scottish primary schools are appointing children as “LGBT champions” and are being urged to ask pupils as young as four if they are gay, lesbian or trans, The Telegraph can reveal."

At 4 I had no idea what sexual attraction was, never mind being attracted to anyone. Surely most children are the same. And if they do understand what heterosexual or gay actually means (let's forget the 'trans' part for now), and think they are one or the other, so what? What will they do about it?

Please tell me this is a joke.

I can’t believe this is real. WTF

I agree with @DuesToTheDirt that 4 year old kids will have no concept of terms like gay or trans. They'd probably say they're whichever because they like the sound of the word or something lost to adults. Children are not supposed to be sexual, with other people at least, so any young child being sexual raises massive red flags.

1./ A charity that sheltered leading figures in the biggest and most appalling paedophile scandal in Scottish criminal history are now invited into primary schools to ask kids if they are gay or trans. Just another average day in SNP…Scotland.
2./ Here’s the stuff the…enablers in the Scottish government don’t tell parents about the shameful history of LGBT Youth Scotland. Don’t let [them] near your kids.

https://twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1780880821848551742

2022 thread about the scandal with more detail than you might care to know about James Rennie's activities in what the Scotsman said was the worst abuse case ever to come to a Scottish court.

https://twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1606413164714901508

Ffs. When dd was 3/4 she said she wanted to marry our dog...

How/why the heck are little children supposed to understand what being gay or lesbian really means? And obviously there's no need to probe them on 'trans' At that age.

Just let kids be kids, damn the stereotypes and let them develop their own unique characters.

That's insightful.
Children being innately immutable is in direct conflict with childhood exploration and curiosity.

We've stopped telling children "you are naughty " because of this. Only to turn around and tell them "these are life options, choose identify yours before you try then out ".

We've fixed the options in the name of making the options more available.

It's arse about face.

Yes it is arse about face as the of whole gender ideology is too. Everything is upside down/seen through a mirror/ turned 180 degrees.

The only choice you should give a 4 year old is “Do you want a custard cream or a bourbon biscuit?”

IIRC Helen Joyce said something about gender ideology turning everything it touches into the opposite of what it should be. This is yet another perfect example.

This is just awful and they should leave the kids alone.

Even the argument that children are born gay doesn't make this right. Children are still impressionable. If it's all done with flags and rainbows and unicorns children can be led to believe things that are are not true.

I always thought the idea of PIE was a bit far fetched, perhaps naively but now I'm starting to really wonder.

At that age I thought I’d marry some tv star. Never have -ikky - babies. Have lots of cats. Wanted to be a witch.

Pie was real. Probably still is. Its just called something else now and yes, I suspect some of the people involved fly the inclusive flag.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26352378