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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Share token for Times comment by Joanna Williams today

13 replies

Tadpole10 · 17/04/2024 08:06

Hilary Cass’s biggest gift is to resurrect free speech

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cc301178-fc1e-11ee-b2eb-b6dd5e28a521?shareToken=c18b0c530a271db032d7b27026a5d7bc

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OP posts:
sashagabadon · 17/04/2024 08:18

I think that a lot of these celebs and journalists and commentators were afraid to speak out because they have sons and (mainly) daughters of a certain age - 20 to about 35 years of age seem to be the age group most pro-trans and they are the ones telling their parents to "do the research" " catch up" and imo I think that is what Dawn is alluding to.
so many celebs in their 50's and 60's have adult children probably telling them their doubts about GI were "not ok"
I think we have seen this phenomena with politicians too. Yvette Cooper springs to mind but probably others
I have younger kids not gender ideologues and I can have these discussions with my children and they agree with me and do not tell me to "do the work, it is so exhausting" so I think it is just a particular age group "controlling" their parents. I also think it will pass!

LizzieSiddal · 17/04/2024 08:25

Thank you, that’s a great piece.
Especially agree that Labour should issue Rosie a full apology.

LoobiJee · 17/04/2024 08:29

Thanks OP. Excellent article. Some highlights for me…

Too often “catch up” is just a way of silencing debate, especially if you want to talk about women’s rights. The censorious phrase comes with a dollop of sexism and ageism: two prejudices which have been morally rehabilitated under the guise of transgender rights.”
^^
“Some who fostered this climate of toxicity now have the gall to deny all responsibility. Ruth Hunt…”
^^
“Others lament the hostility but blame feminists who stood up to transgender activism…. It seems that those who argued being female was a state of mind were honest brokers while those who defended sex-based rights were mendacious culture warriors.”
^^
“But forgive me just a little cynicism. Until my local MP, Rosie Duffield, receives an apology from the Labour Party members who have treated her so badly, and until Stonewall drops its accusation that Baroness Falkner, head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, took an “anti-trans” stance on conversion therapy, I will remain sceptical of recent converts to open debate.

LunaNorth · 17/04/2024 08:34

Great article. Thank you for the share token.

Igneococcus · 17/04/2024 08:55

I rather like one of the comments:
"I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question. "

Astariel · 17/04/2024 08:56

I’ve been noticing the weird ‘generational wars’ videos on TikTok lately, particularly those with the theme of younger people lecturing their elders on what kinds of emojis etc are acceptable to use at work.

Each time, I mostly just find myself thinking ‘what is the point?’ Why should anyone care that some young people have decided that emojis mean something different to what they previously did, and moreover that they’re offended or upset by it?

This all seems part of the same issue: the people who self-identify as ‘the future’ want to redefine anything and everything and to control how everyone else thinks. The narrative gets framed as ‘war’ (with allies and enemies and fronts and assaults and violence and all sorts of nonsense) and the people who haven’t declared themselves ‘the right side of history’ are - weirdly - positioned as the aggressors. They are lectured about how they need to ‘catch up’ etc and vilified for not just adopting whatever the current fashion is among young people

The worst part of it all is the desperation of some people in the ‘problem’ age groups to pander to and appease the loud, young activists. People like Cooper who are so desperate to be an ‘ally’ and down with the cool kids and ‘caught up’ on their concerns. The concept of ‘culture wars’ is, I think, deeply inaccurate and problematic.

The latter bit is the new for this century but. When I was a young person who thought I knew it all, the older would around me weren’t desperate to prove they were aligned with me and my peers.

I think I’m rapidly losing any sympathy for people my age doing some weird ‘pick me, pick’ me performance to try to impress some 20 year olds on tik tok.

Poor Dawn French. Why should she ‘catch up’ with whatever the latest fashionable nonsense is. The thing about the passage of time is being able to see the coming and going of various fads and fashion - despite the certainty of those involved that they have finally figured out the absolute truth.

1Week · 17/04/2024 09:01

I agree @Astariel .
A large part of this is middle aged people being desperate for approval by young people.
Its something to do with our cultures hyper focus and lauding of youth. See Greta Thunberg for example.
Wading into deep waters here, but is it something to do with being terrified of ageing because it leads to death, as the comfort and acceptance of religion fades away, on a societal level.

Orangedoll · 17/04/2024 09:07

Thanks for the share token OP, really appreciated this article.

It always amuses me though that when I was told to “educate” myself about trans issues, that my education only deepened my terfiness. Not sure that was their intention 😂

sashagabadon · 17/04/2024 09:28

it does sometimes backfire. Martina Navratilova was told to “ educate” herself. She did exactly that and came out fighting for women’s rights 😁

Astariel · 17/04/2024 10:04

That’s because they don’t actually mean to educate yourself. Absolutely not.

What you need to do is conform and believe as required.

OceanicBoundlessness · 17/04/2024 10:06

Educate yourself usually means listen to one type of "lived experience" to the exclusion of the experience of detransitioners, trans widows, parents of children who are thinking about their gender, people who have lost careers for asking questions and expressing opinions and so on.

badgeronthedrums · 17/04/2024 10:06

@1Week I agree.

Astariel · 17/04/2024 10:06

@1week is likely right that the fading influence of traditional religion for the groups most likely to be involved in this kind of behaviour is relevant. It’s not that they’ve transcended religion; they are just finding new ways to codify correct beliefs, morally categorise people in relation to them and control behaviour on that basis.

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