Ireland - Political party stance on trans issues for local elections canvassers

[OchonAgusOchonOh]

I'm not sure whether to post this here or on craicnet. I'm afraid it might get derailed into other election issues in craicnet so I'll try here first.

I just had my first canvasser for the local elections from Sinn Féin. I told her I couldn't vote for SF given their stance on women's rights. She was a bit taken aback until I explained I meant their stance on TWAW and allowing males into female spaces if they declared themselves to be women. We had a discussion on it. She actually agreed with me, particularly on puberty blockers but doesn't believe Sinn Féin policy supports males in female spaces or PBs for kids. She asked had I seen any specifics and I said only TWAW statements, but the general support for TWAW and the lack of speaking out against the likes of Barbie Kardashian in a women's prison suggests they don't support women's spaces.

I was caught on the hop a bit and couldn't remember specifics. Afterwards, I remembered SF support 16 year olds being allowed to self-id and an MLA recently supporting easy access to PBs for children who are gender questioning.

So I thought, why not have a thread where we can include talking points for local canvassers, preferably with links to specific statements by the parties on their stance. If you have anything to add, I would appreciate you adding a reply as I would like to be informed when talking to canvassers.

Great idea for a thread @OchonAgusOchonOh .
I would reference support for WPATH in manifestos - I think they've all done that. Sinn Féin have walked back on support for the hate speech laws but as far as I know, Labour, SocDems haven't and certainly the Greens are gung-ho.

Thanks @Mermoose. I'll google them all with wpath.

I brought up the Case report and how nobody from Sinn Féin had come out in support.

Didn't Mary Lou's brother transition?
So what? If her brother became a property developer that doesn't mean the whole country should be gung ho anti ordinary first time buyer

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

Yes, her brother transitioned but that has nothing to do with SF policies on protecting women's spaces and children, although obviously it might inform Mary Lou's attitudes.

AFAICS, Aontú are the only significant party with a defined, supportable policy on the sex/gender issue. Independent candidates and Independent Ireland may have or develop one, but none of the other parties, Fianna Fáil (under MM), Fine Gael, Sinn Féin, the Greens, or the SocDems can be trusted at all, no matter what their canvassers may say on the doorsteps.

@Genesis1v27 yes, I agree. That is why I would like to have specifics to counteract the "of course we are pro women" guff. So any links to statements, tweets, reports, policies etc would be great.

Ideally I would like the canvassers to return to headquarters saying that TWAW and throwing women under the trans bus is not a vote getter.

Probably didn't make myself clear, its a grumble I've been dying to let out for ages so just blurted it there without a proper explanation.

Grumble grumble

Feel free to grumble more clearly 😁

Thanks for starting this thread @OchonAgusOchonOh . Will only be votinh Aontú & the Independents. I only want critical thinking TDs with common sense representing me!

I don't care if they are against me in kids spaces. As a 40 something year old woman I don't want any man in my personal space. Try harder Sinn Féin.

Great idea for a thread thanks OP.

I will look into it and list here anything in particular I find. Nobody has knocked my door yet but like you I want to be prepared when they do.

I do recall one of the greens saying it was contrary to human rights not to allow the trans identifying males in women's prisons to mix with the general population.

They also support children transitioning and trans people using facilities that match their gender identity rather than their sex - https://www.greenparty.ie/sites/default/files/2022-10/Gender%20Recognition%20Policy.pdf

I can't believe I used to vote green.

It's so infuriating that at a time when environmental causes have never been more urgent, they're pissing away their time and power on this divisive bullshit.

If they're too stupid / cowardly / captured to acknowledge basic biology WHICH I CAN SEE WITH MY OWN TWO EYES, why would I believe them on complex matters of physics and atmospherics which I must take on trust?

They had One Job

Yes, agreed @1Week the Greens have really lost their way. They will be destroyed at the next election I reckon.

Not a moment too soon @OchonAgusOchonOh
The curse of being a junior party of FF strikes again. (Let's forget about FG for now. Or forever)

MM is an unusual leader for FF. I think being the indoor smoking ban pioneer went to his head. He's been unstoppable progressive since. He likes when the big boys tousle his head and say he's a big man for a little lad

The smoking ban is the only achievement he has really @1week He's been dining out on it ever since.

It's not their human rights. They are demanding rights that belong to women. It's demands, not rights. Us women have rights. These failed men are not women & never will be.
Thanks again for starting this thread @OchonAgusOchonOh I'll have something constructive to post tomorrow, apologies for the midnight rant 😔

People Before Profit have their LBGTQ policy up on their website.
LGBTQ Policy – People Before Profit (pbp.ie) [current]

Sinn Féin used to have a whole policy LBGTQ document, but currently there doesn't seem to be anything on their website.
This is a good summing up of what their policy document used to say:
Sinn Féin committed to seeing true LGBTQI+ equality achieved - Mary Lou McDonald TD - Sinn Féin (sinnfein.ie) [2020]
It was SF who introduced the first Gender Recognition legislation, and up to now they have been very TWAW.

I tried to find out what Aontú's policy is, but they don't have any policy statement about sex/gender issues on their website . So with no declared policy on gender issues, you'd have to go by their other policies. Aontú - It's Time for Common Sense (aontu.ie)

Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Greens all supported the 2020 Programme for Government which includes: We will create and implement a general health policy for Trans people, based on a best-practice model for care, in line with the World Professional Association of Transgender Healthcare (WPATH) and deliver a framework for the development of National Gender Clinics and Multidisciplinary Teams for children and adults.
Create and implement a general health policy for Trans people, based on a best-practice model for care, in line with the World Professional Association of Transgender Healthcare (WPATH) and deliver a framework for the development of National Gender Clinics and Multidisciplinary Teams for children and adults.
PFG 2020.pdf (hubspotusercontent30.net)
Some of them may be reverse ferreting - recent leaflets through my door have been totally devoid of anything LBGTQxyz at all.

I don't think the Rural Independents Group have set policies, I think they vote on a case by case basis.

Hope this is useful.
It's worth prepping for a visit from a politician - I had a TD and a local councillor on my doorstep the other day and though I got in sex-based rights, hate speech laws, and imprecise undefined terms like 'hate' and 'gender', I forgot about 'repeal the GRA'. Mind you, I think that by then they were edging backwards towards the garden gate...

Thats very informative @MarieDeGournay, thanks

That's very helpful @MarieDeGournay Thank you.

I cancelled my membership of the NI Green Party in 2015 because of their mad attitude towards the erasure of women’s rights and I got a very snide email in response.

It seems that all European Green parties have gone mega-progressive and are obsessed with promoting ideas that only benefit Big Pharma.

I’ll be very interested to see how the Cass Review filters through politics in Ireland. Although, Stephen Farry of the Alliance has already nailed his colours to the anti-Cass mast; tiresome and po-faced lecturing individual that he (and The Alliance Party) is these days.

So far, in NI, only Unionist parties are saying anything about protecting children from dodgy medicine. It’s been 24 hours and I’m still fed surprised that I agree with something Sammy Wilson said yesterday on this issue 😬😂

Aontu are anti abortion so I can't, in good conscience vote for them.

Thanks @OchonAgusOchonOh,

Brilliant way for us all to have our facts ready when they inevitably come knocking.

I'm in the heart of MaryLou constituency and guaranteed to have SF knock.

SD may knock, possibly Greens.

FG & FF sneak around at stupid o'clock sticking leaflets in doors. Climate change my ass.

However I digress, a good starting point is political parties websites will have within their policies their stance re women through their LBTG etc etc

Another good was the deep dive @MarieDeGournay I think it was on a thread in craicsnet did re the TDS and Senators and their adulation of the GI bill.

SF if I recall correctly were extremely critical the bill did not go far enough.

I also think the hate speech bill designed to stop us talking , stop us asking questions, stop dissent needs to be brought up at doors.

We also need to be asking what happens should we be reported for hurt feelz, does show up on a Garda clearance as a non crime? I don't think the politicians themselves know, the policies are badly written and when challenged cannot stand up. A reflection of ministers clearly out of their depth in roles.

When I say us I mean everyone in Ireland.

SF will blow with the wind, criticised again cause it did not go far enough, now back peddling faster than the titanic hit the iceberg because people are not onboard with it.

The greens are the prop up party, gatekeepers party. Purely in there to reign in the big guns.

Ireland has a history of punishing the gatekeepers. Labour in 2016 decimated at polls after 2011 seat surge.

Greens in 2011 after propping up FF

PDs possibly 2011 I think. They as a party were brought down.

Ah yes the electorate hold the gatekeepers to account.

ER has to go, frightening to remember his window box, hardware shop speech in 2020 during Covid, 3 -4 months later he is a minister.