Is the observer separate to the guardian.....this seems like a good piece on Cass!

[mids2019]

Thanks to Cass, evidence not ideology will be used to guide children seeking gender advice | Sonia Sodha https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/14/hilary-cass-review-gender-trans-young-people-children-nhs-evidence?CMP=share_btn_url

Different newspaper, different editor, same website. 🤷‍♂️

The Observer has been consistently ahead of The Guardian on this (not hard!)
Sonia Sodha is great.

I see.......

Good to see anyway. At least Guardian readers get to see it.

Bit of a side issue. One of the things that grates on me is mention of the "toxicity of the debate" silencing people for fear of losing jobs / friends / reputation.

Has that ever come from the GC - feminist side? I'm not aware of a single example, but I'm not aware of lots of things so maybe it's me. So serious question: is it ever a GC thing?

I have heard of plenty of life-altering nastiness from the transactivist side.

If it's as one-sided as it looks, "toxicity of the debate" is ambiguous to the point of gaslighting. If "toxicity of transactivists" is the actual problem, perhaps call it by its name?

Great article.

@quixote9 She’s tried so hard to write this in a way that might in some way appease the TRAs. Unfortunately she’s underestimated how much anything but complete capitulation to their position is taken as anti-trans. So really she could have gone full throttle and called it out for what it is and the report would have got the same wailing, tooth gnashing “she’s clearly transphobic” response… at least she’s taken the higher ground?

The "both sides" thing is political positioning like @RunsWithDinosaurs says. Apparently the Cass Review was subject to unpleasantness from both trans activists and the "gender criitcal side", but if you look at the actual concerns in terms of what the Cass Review were looking at, it's clear from the final report that the toxicity that was relevant to the report itself was directed at medical practitioners being subject to horrible abuse when they would question any aspect of gender identity ideology.

If you read the final report itself, you'll find that there are many language choices that were made to appease the trans activists, and there are other choices too, for example it does seem to have taken for granted that everyone has a gender identity and its congruence with sex or otherwise determines whether a person is trans.

In spite of all this, the fact that the Cass Review happened at all, and has made a stand in support of gathering good evidence and using that to decide on how to best treat children and young people are massive positives.

I think a careful line needs to be trod to get liberal types to actually read the article. Overall it read well. People are now feeling brave to talk about it more and if there is momentum it won't stop

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-two-matts/id1236139906?i=1000652200801

Also thought this was good

I think the website is the Guardian on weekdays and the Observer on weekends.

@fabricstash listening now and this is indeed really good. Impressed.

I was thinking of asking this exact thing the other day.

I can't think of hearing of a single time anyone tra was even threatened with losing their job or being cancelled. This is because the tra currently have all the power basically.

Anyone show me where I'm wrong?

Can't think of any tra who have been arrested for saying or tweeting anything either.

The Guardian is awful. I still read the Observer which has a more open minded editor so this article is consistent with that. They are not actually afraid of a discussion!

Well, I think a few TRAS and 1 or 2 transwomen may have lost their jobs. Actually for inappropriate behaviour at work, like wanking in the NSPCC toilets, or inappropriate use of social media like whip wielding brownie trans woman, and the penis mermaid. There was the lovely Jacob, who got a place on the board at Mermaids with his academic apologia for paedophilia, but then lost everything. I’m sure they were pivoted as being hounded out of work by a bunch of moralising right wing funded t**fs. And I think a trans woman won an employment tribunal against the NHS. The boards of some big name companies who saw their profits tumble after coming out as pro transing kids probably feel they got caught up in a toxic debate. But I’ve never seen personal threats or hard core abusive language directed at transpeople and TRAs. Your Mums a terf is still my favourite rejoinder.

@RunsWithDinosaurs @nauticant @fabricstash @tobee Sounds like it's not just me. Which means it might be worth gently mentioning that, gee, this is kind of like bothsidesing....... I'll start trying that when the mood seems right.

I do see the value in meeting people where they are and pointing out other directions from there. So I'm not faulting Soudha saying that since she obviously knows which end is up. It bothers me when it's random pundits who don't have a clue.

And Munroe Bergdorf lost a valuable high profile ambassadorial gig after another little safeguarding fail. Know someone here will have the receipts. And Lily Madigan wasnt allowed to be Womens officer anymore after some women said they were difficult to turn down.

I think many men (I know a few) who have held back from joining in the conversation and it is good they are joining now. They need to persuade others on their own terms

Take off the rose tinted specs. The people we communicate with about GC views are probably reasonable people. There are many out there on the fringes of our movement who are bad actors so we can't say it's appeasement. If we do say that, then we are blind and that just wont do. We need our eyes open and our wits about us, not all GC feminists are reasonable, some are downright zealots.

Realism should be the cornerstone of gender critical feminism and acceptance of the reality of some in our movement is a good step.

That's a great article.