Struggling to answer DS’s questions on why some men are so awful

[Catabogus]

DS is 11 and is quite a sensitive lad. For quite a while he has been asking me why so many men are so awful. I don’t know what to say!

This started with public lavatories - after using the ladies’ with me up to age 8, he switched to the men’s and noticed that it was often badly vandalised, much filthier than the women’s and sometimes full of disgusting graffiti. He absolutely hated it and kept asking why men would do that to their loo.

He is very interested in the news and often asks about conflict (Ukraine, Israel) or violence (communal, individual or domestic - or against animals). He notices that it is almost always perpetrated by boys/men, seems upset and has asked me why.

Most recently we have had a short chat about pornography (I felt I needed to cover this before he’s exposed to anything on a friend’s phone at secondary school). I mentioned that the sex in porn is unrealistic and sometimes frightening or violent towards women. He was SO HORRIFIED that I felt I’d done something wrong in even broaching the topic. For days afterwards he kept asking me “but why, Mum?? WHY do men want to watch that?” and appeared close to tears. I found this question really hard to answer.

I think I urgently need to do something to improve his image of men. He has even said “I don’t like being a man” a couple of times. His father is great - very respectful, hands-on and does more housework and childcare than I do - and I’ve stressed that lots of men are good ones like his dad. I’ve pointed out good examples of decent, positive men in the public eye. I’ve also tried to explain that it’s not (just) nature but the way they’re brought up and treated by society that influences men to behave as they do - so by bringing up the next generation well we can influence how they turn out. I’ve told him he is caring and decent and isn’t going to be a violent, abusive man.

But I think I need to do something more. I’m struggling to provide proper, age-appropriate answers to his questions, and I could really do with some more ideas on how to promote a positive, healthy self-image for him. (DH will help, I’m sure, and is a great role model, but isn’t the best at heart-to-heart conversations on these issues).

Thank you all very much for any ideas!

Thanks so much for all these comments. Really helpful. I’ll go through them all carefully.

It’s wonderful that so many have said he sounds like a lovely boy - he is! - but I do worry that negative feelings towards men as a group is a problem for a nearly-teen boy. The “I don’t like being a man” really concerned me (not least because of the fear of gender ideology! - though I don’t think that’s likely).

I actually worried he could get drawn the other way, and end up looking for someone like Andrew Tate, in a search for some sort of meaning to being a man/trying to find someone with something positive to say about a man’s role. I think I do need to try to fill this gap with some positive ideals of masculinity and so on.

I’ve spent so much time thinking about his younger sister - providing strong female role models, and trying to make sure she isn’t negatively affected by gender stereotypes and all that - that I’ve probably neglected DS’s needs for positive male stuff too. He hears me tell DD all the time that she mustn’t let the annoying boys in her class tell her she can’t play football etc, and he tells her it too. But maybe I need to add something about the good, kind, decent boys/men that are out there too.

Haven't RTFT and not a parent, but I wonder if a new hobby like partner dancing/ballroom dancing would help. No idea if kids think this is cringe or cool, but what I love about it is that it makes the most of the strengths of both sexes. He can enjoy and be proud of his strength but will be using it in a supportive way and it will get him used to being around girls and treating them like normal human beings.
Same with ice dancing or pairs skating, or tennis doubles or something. Or any sport, really that will stop him thinking so much but also learn how great it is to have a male body can be and how to use aggression in a positive way. Any "bad" feelings can sublimated, too. Boxing? Judo, Karate - they are good because of the etiquette and rules around how you fight and having respect for your opponent.

I'll probably have to name change after this, but that's my tuppence-worth.

I actually think this is helpful - don’t worry, I didn’t take it as a slur on single mums! He might respond well to the idea that men who behave badly often have poor role models in their father (not absent fathers!). It’s a good age-appropriate explanation.

AReasonablePerson - a lot to think about there, thank you! I do try to guard against any casual stereotyping of men but could probably do more.

KittyEars this is very useful, thank you. I think I do need to address the nature side of it more than I have been so far. Your suggested explanations of testosterone/aggression/positive harnessing are really helpful.

This book is aimed at 13+ but might be good to have on hand

https://alanbissett.com/lads/

ThreeEggOmelette he does do Scouts, yes - our leaders are not as great as yours sound to be but as far as I can tell are all decent humans.

I think the problem isn’t really that he sees many “bad” men in his life, but that he reads about them in the paper or sees the result of their behaviour (eg smashed up men’s loos) and feels worried. I’ve tried to do a lot of “of course you won’t turn out like that” reassurance, but it must feel quite concerning to him I think.

He is good at sticking up for what he thinks is right, and of course we encourage him to do this, but he does also sometimes seem quite perturbed by the behaviour of lads his age (swearing, petty vandalism at school, rudeness to teachers/friends). I’ve been trying downplay the more minor aspects in a “they’ll probably grow out of it” way. Not sure if this is the best approach. Lots to think about!

@Catabogus your son sounds great! And dare I say it, it’s a nice conundrum to have - other parents of boys are often asking the opposite, how can I make him respect girls more, or be kinder etc. it sounds like you’ve been doing an amazing job from when he was tiny to raise a brilliant caring boy.

Beyond Equality are worth looking up - is he going to secondary school in Sept? I think they do workshops from Y7 but might have some resources for younger.

I’d also talk honestly to him about how society works, and patriarchy. You probably have without realising if you’ve been telling your daughter to ignore boys re football etc. Look up ‘innocent socialisation’ and how differently boys and girls are unconsciously treated. With both your kids you could watch ‘No More Boys and Girls’ 2 part documentary on a Y3 class

Sonshine magazine is worth following on Instagram about raising boys, though skews younger

I think I would say to him that women also have problematic behaviours, but they are somewhat different than the ones men tend to have. If he's in school, he may be aware that really terrible bullying can go on with girls, with sometimes terrible outcomes.

"I’ve spent so much time thinking about his younger sister - providing strong female role models, and trying to make sure she isn’t negatively affected by gender stereotypes and all that - that I’ve probably neglected DS’s needs for positive male stuff too. He hears me tell DD all the time that she mustn’t let the annoying boys in her class tell her she can’t play football etc, and he tells her it too. But maybe I need to add something about the good, kind, decent boys/men that are out there too."

Is* *that prompted by stuff that is actually happening to your daughter? I get the systemic reasons that you are saying it, but I think those framing might not be the best. I think it can feed into a narrative of men/boys are constantly oppressing women/girls and in some ways that's quite a negative view for your daughter and crucially one that seems more prevalent than when I was her age. Yes, it's imported to talk about the systemic stuff, but I'm glad I grew up with more of a message of 'There really was a lot of sexist nonsense in the past and we are getting better, not perfect'. I think that's more empowering. I don't want to be the female victim. I took my equality for granted as I should be able to.

The second reason is how those sort of message is feeding into the stuff your son is internalising. I would talk about how we all have selfish impulses and part of growing up is learning about not being slaves to them. Instead we are a decent member of a society. The fact he sees those stuff as wrong suggests he's on the right road.

I'd also talk about us as individuals and the responsibilities each of us has, male and female, rather than focus too much on identity characteristics. There is much more to him as a person than just being male.

I think it can be important to show examples of positive masculinity. Have you ever seen the film Thirteen Lives, based very very closely on the Thai cave rescue? (PG 13). It's the most beautiful example of positive masculinity I've seen in a long time. Team work, courage, determination, selflessness, experience, skill and expertise coming together to save lives. That's what real men look like.