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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New regional gender centres

13 replies

Namerchangee · 08/04/2024 14:49

Does anyone think these will be different to the Tavi GIDS or just Tavi version 2?

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Millersmerkin · 08/04/2024 14:51

Some of the same people involved so latter more likely unless Cass review has some serious weight

Namerchangee · 08/04/2024 14:55

That’s what I’m thinking too @Millersmerkin - review recommendations sometimes don’t get implemented do they? I’m just considering other reviews connected to children’s services and the fact that ‘lessons will be learned’ gets trotted out every time there’s a serious case review - but little seems to change.

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RethinkingLife · 08/04/2024 14:55

Millersmerkin · 08/04/2024 14:51

Some of the same people involved so latter more likely unless Cass review has some serious weight

Strong agreement from me. They've got people in place who are acting as seed pods for distributed Tavi GIDS.

I would like to be wrong but the NHS is looking for workarounds that will allow them to continue Tavi GIDS as usual. Look at the selection of Nottingham despite the well known problems there.

Namerchangee · 08/04/2024 15:03

@RethinkingLife - I’m not sure where the other centres are but what are the issues within Nottingham?

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RethinkingLife · 08/04/2024 15:29

Namerchangee · 08/04/2024 15:03

@RethinkingLife - I’m not sure where the other centres are but what are the issues within Nottingham?

The 2 that have now opened are GOSH and Alder Hey (in partnership with Royal Manchester Children's).

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/new-specialist-gender-service-start/

https://www.alderhey.nhs.uk/new-specialist-gender-service-for-children-and-young-people-opens/

Recent discussion of Notts and WPATH here. (I'll find more later.)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5024558-nhs-england-and-scottish-government-reject-wpath

New specialist gender service starts

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/new-specialist-gender-service-start

FinallyASunnyDay · 08/04/2024 16:24

I understand the third to be opened will be Bristol (though got no idea where I heard/read that). This makes me v v concerned - not only will it be nearest (and therefore accessible) to children in my local/practice area, but my limited experience is that Bristol is a second Brighton, with all that entails.

The key problem is that very few clinicians want to go anywhere near gender medicine unless they are heavily invested in ideology or otherwise agenda-led (this goes for therapists and GPs too as far as I have seen). And who would blame them - that way litigation, complaints and GMC proceedings potentially lie. I have no idea how this can be fixed.

FinallyASunnyDay · 08/04/2024 16:25

I suppose we can only hope for very very tight service specs.

AlisonDonut · 08/04/2024 16:36

Namerchangee · 08/04/2024 15:03

@RethinkingLife - I’m not sure where the other centres are but what are the issues within Nottingham?

Nottingham is run by gender wibblers who are still wedded to WPATH 8th - the Eunach edition.

Namerchangee · 08/04/2024 17:18

Thankyou @AlisonDonut - I appreciate you commenting. I have done a little bit of research as I am meeting clinic staff soon and I had seen there was a link to WPATH and that got me worried.

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Redshoeblueshoe · 08/04/2024 17:28

In Manchester there is also Indigo gender services. Massive notice in my Doctors, and leaflets. And the last GP I saw had pro-nouns on his badge.

SpicyMoth · 08/04/2024 17:36

Not entirely sure how to fully word what I mean in a delicate and accurate way, but I had to go to GOSH every year up until the age of 16 and it genuinely saddens and worries me to see GOSH being used in this way.
To a certain extent I understand why, children hospital, children's issue (I guess, I don't really subscribe to the "trans kids" notion, but hey ho).

Yes there are a range of issues that are treated at GOSH, but from my experience at least, I saw that the majority of patients there were children who were quite seriously ill with either long term or short term conditions, all physical from what I could tell. The ones who weren't seriously ill were mostly "in and outers" for not even a full afternoon from what I recall seeing personally - and it just doesn't strike me as right to have Gender Identity stuff within the same hospital.
It just feels... Inappropriate? Insensitive? I'm not sure of the right word to use here.

The mood was always... Idk, hard to describe.
Sad, but happy/optimistic/childlike.
Every effort was made to make children feel better about having to be there. Art on the walls, murals, toys, climbing frames for those able, softer play for those less able, books, videos, etc. But you could tell from the parents vibes and faces that it was a bitter-sweet sort of scenario that came across as tbh, almost sorrowful - Ofc it's not exactly fun to have your child need such care.
When I was younger I didn't have the words for it, but as I grew older I understood it a bit more and could see it for what it all was - It was making the best out of a shit situation.

It just seems... Not the right place.
If it needs to exist, it needs to be separate from that type of place imo.

With that in mind, though ofc I have absolutely no idea what the gender service within GOSH will look like, it worries me that it will mirror the "Trans kids" imagery you see in schools/online with that almost... indoctrination type of feel I guess? (I don't think that's the word I'm looking for) Making it look all "hip" and "cool" and "easy" and like something you can "just do".
The style of the hospital before was more in the vein of "We're sorry you have to be here, so we'll make it as pleasant for you/not scary as we can"
But I worry that GI stuff will be portrayed in more of an ideological way if that makes any sense at all, sort of like... Idk "echo chamber-y" and positive I guess.

I'm really struggling with how to phrase things in a way that comes across how I'd like them to today - my brain feels like mush, but I hope this makes sense :S
Maybe other posters have had experiences with GOSH and will understand where I'm trying to come from?

On the face of it, this line from the above link seems reassuring;
"It will evolve over time in line with emerging best practice and evidence at our service and nationally and globally."
But I feel as though that really depends on what sources for "best practice and evidence" they're taking their queues from.
If it's thoroughly captured affirm only PoV... Well... That's worrying.
If they're open to listening to any and all sides of research, then brilliant!

Crankywiddershins · 08/04/2024 22:35

@SpicyMoth I think you explained it well. I don't have experience of GOSH but I think your feeling that '"it's not the right place" is accurate. My worry is that some children who are there for medical purposes will see all the "trans joy" and the affirmation and be drawn into thinking that maybe transitioning will help them with problems that have nothing to do with gender. Any child hospital patient is by definition vulnerable.

Brainworm · 08/04/2024 23:35

I am not sure what you have in mind when you think of the ex-Tavi GIDS patients, but having worked at the Tavi and GOSH, I don't think there will be an issue or mis match.

Over the course of many years, I didn't see any exhibitions of trans joy at the Tavi and nothing concerned me about the GIDS patients who were in and around the clinic.

GOSH has a DCAMH that treats children and adolescent MH patients and the Mildred Creek inpatient unit.

I don't anticipated the CYP with gender distress to be any more of a concern than any of the other DCAMH out patients.

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