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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Conversations about JK Rowling

111 replies

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/04/2024 07:52

I'm friends with a group of women who are mainly based in the US and Canada, and all politically left leaning. I deliberately do not mention anything to do with gender because I know that they are all very TWAW and would be horrified to learn that I am not. A particular subset of this group are big fans of Harry Potter but by common consensus do not talk about JK Rowling because they're all so disappointed about her stance on this issue.

Recently, however, one of them started a private conversation with me about JK Rowling. We had previously talked about the Cormoran Strike series and in particular about how Troubled Blood is not a transphobic book and the people claiming it is have clearly not read it. Then recently I sent her a message saying that the title of the next book has just been announced.

Out of nowhere, she said she wished JK Rowling would stop being transphobic so everyone could just go back to being a fan. I'm fairly sure that my friend had sensed that my views aren't aligned with those of the rest of the group and was testing me.

I didn't want to lie to my friend, and more importantly I didn't want to take the coward's way out and pretend that I also think JK Rowling is a hateful bigot when she has been so brave in sticking her head above the parapet in front of the entire world on this issue.

So I started by asking my friend whether she had actually read JK Rowling's essay. She replied that she had skim read it, but really, she was just appalled by the whole thing. I said I had read the whole thing because when people started accusing her of transphobia I wanted to find out what she had actually said, and judge for myself. I said I didn't agree that she was transphobic, but that she has serious concerns about women's rights and child safeguarding. I also said that in the UK, the idea that women should have some single sex spaces and sports is one that most people support. My friend said she actually agreed with that.

My friend then said that whilst there might be valid arguments to be made around single sex spaces, the way JK Rowling has expressed her views has been really harmful, especially given the context of the way LGBTQ people are being treated in many parts of America.

I responded by saying that context is important. JK Rowling doesn't live in America, she lives in the UK. In the UK we have no political equivalent of the American right wing, because even our Conservatives are more akin to the US Democrats on both economic and social issues. JK Rowling does not live in America, she doesn't vote in their elections and she's not responsible for who the American people elect to represent them or what they do. She is, however, entitled to have an opinion and to speak about what is happening in her own country, i.e. the UK and more specifically, Scotland.

I then went on to list some of the most concerning things that have happened in the UK and particularly in Scotland over the last few years, with a particular focus on prisons, rape crisis services and Maya Forstater. I told her about what had led to JK Rowling deciding to set up and solely fund Beira's place, and that trans activists had been trying to have it forced to accept male survivors or shut down. I told her all about Mridul Wadhwa, quoting extensively from the horse's mouth.

I also said that JK Rowling is far from the only person to be concerned about irreversible medical interventions being performed on trans identifying children, and expressed my private belief that puberty blockers are likely to be banned across Europe within a few years, given that the UK and France are now following the lead of the Scandinavian countries in putting the brakes on some of these practices, because the long term evidence in favour of them is really not good.

She said she understood all of that but wished that JK Rowling had not chosen this hill to die on, and that even though these issues are important, she feels that the harm caused to the LGBTQ community has been greater than the small benefit to other groups from speaking out. I said I disagreed, and that for female prisoners and rape survivors, as well as children who will now hopefully get more ethically responsible healthcare, these are not small matters.

I finished by picking up on a particular point she had made about JK Rowling suggesting she "doesn't believe trans women are women" and I said that I think the "trans women are women" mantra is actually really harmful to women because we all have our arms twisted to say it, and then the fact that we have said it is used as a justification for taking away our single sex rape crisis support or letting male athletes compete in our sports. I said that a few years ago I would have said that trans women are women but now I think it's a lot more complicated than that and if she's being honest with herself, so does she.

She never replied to that last message but she is continuing to engage with me in the group chat. I am not planning to talk to her about this issue again unless she specifically brings it up. But I privately believe that the message hit home and now she doesn't know what to do with it.

OP posts:
AnnieRegent · 16/04/2024 15:57

Late to this, but I just wanted to echo what everyone else has said @MissScarletInTheBallroom - I’m well impressed with how you handled this. I remember your older threads about this group. I’m really sorry that it ended this way.

I think you’re spot on with the analysis of left-leaning US women. Agree that the consequences for them of leaning more GC are huge and so a lot of people just refuse to think about it (same as with your best friend). I wonder what it will take for this to change. I wonder if the current events will actually have any effect on the other side of the Atlantic.

My best friend is similar to your second friend - she is concerned about gender stereotyping as a cause of kids saying they’re trans but she also rolls her eyes a bit at some women’s desire for single sex spaces. But I think she’s more or less with us…

Anyway, well done again. Am dead impressed.

rainontherooftop · 16/04/2024 17:26

You have inspired me OP.

I've not been brave enough to bring up the discussion with some friends up to now. I'm seeing one of them on the weekend and I've decided I am going to.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 30/07/2025 11:51

Someone else has bumped their own old thread to update everyone about the TERF conversations they have had in real life, which has inspired me to do likewise.

Back in November I received a LinkedIn message out of the blue from a member of the WhatsApp group.

She said she had been unaware of my unceremonious cancelling because she had taken a break from the group at the time and did not come back until a few weeks later when the conversation had moved on.

She said she wanted to let me know that she completely disagreed with the others and was in my corner. She also said that she was cutting ties with most of them herself as she thought there was a nasty, bitchy atmosphere in the group, which for all their chat about being the bestest baby bumper group in history, is actually pretty intolerant of anyone who doesn't toe the party line. She said that as a practising Christian whose husband is in the military, she felt she was increasingly coming under attack by the most political members of the group, who had gone absolutely batshit since Trump was re-elected. (She isn't a Trump supporter herself, but felt that anyone with religious beliefs or a military connection was being subjected to particular scrutiny for signs of thought crimes.) And she also said that she thinks the woman in the group whose son has long hair and likes pretty things is laying the foundations to trans him pretty soon, and that she thinks it's an attention seeking thing.

She said she wasn't the only person in the group to feel the way she does, and some of the others also felt very uncomfortable about the way I had been treated, including the group admin who was the one who actually removed me from the group.

Anyway, we had a pretty long conversation over a couple of days, and left it at that. But we like each other's Instagram photos quite often.

I was glad she reached out. (None of the others have.)

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/07/2025 12:07

Another positive update. Just shows how the coercive control / bullying aspects of this ideology work in imposing this on society. So pleased you got that feedback

Igmum · 03/08/2025 13:49

What good news. We are definitely in the sane majority.

GinaWhoLikesADrink · 03/08/2025 14:13

@MissScarletInTheBallroom
That's good to hear!

I've not read Harry Potter and not that interested in JKR. When my friend called JKR "transphobic" recently, I asked her what JKR had said or done that was transphobic. Unsurprisingly, my friend had not a clue. She works in a TWAW institution and I don't think she'd be able to handle the truth.

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 03/08/2025 14:48

I keep getting sent links to stuff explaining in tedious detail how jkr's works are of terribly low literary merit. Its authors are clearly very upset about how successful she is. Sucks to be them.

SidewaysOtter · 03/08/2025 15:53

That's a good update, OP!

From your original post: Out of nowhere, she said she wished JK Rowling would stop being transphobic so everyone could just go back to being a fan...She said she understood all of that but wished that JK Rowling had not chosen this hill to die on, and that even though these issues are important...

I've seen this so many times, someone very nearly makes it but then decides they can't bear to "switch sides" and they flee back into the warm embrace of Correct Think. Shades of Mary Warren in The Crucible running back to the girls in court after she nearly comes clean on it all being a lie. They just can't bear to accept the idea that the tenets of the ideology they've swallowed just don't add up.

FarriersGirl · 03/08/2025 18:03

Thanks for the update OP. I think its important to remember that we can chip away at this ideology bit by bit on a personal level as well as the big stories/cases that get a lot of media coverage. A bit of gardening here and there and an advance order for JKR's latest book - can't wait for that to come out!!

lechiffre55 · 03/08/2025 18:07

@MissScarletInTheBallroom
I suspect your friend doesn't do a lot of thinking for herself. I'm betting she likes other people to do the thinking for her, and let her know what her views are.

Account734 · 03/08/2025 18:20

Well done!! Sounds like you were calm and reasonable and let the facts speak for themselves. I like the post by the journalist on X who was tasked with writing an article on JK Rowling's transphobia, after researching it she came back and said she couldn't write the article because she hadn't found anything JK said that was actually transphobic.

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