Ireland's hate speech law

[Mermoose]

Opinion piece in the Irish Independent, by Ian O'Doherty, on the backlash to Scotland's hate crime law, and the similarities between it and Ireland's proposed Criminal Justice Bill.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ian-odoherty-if-hate-speech-bill-becomes-law-well-all-end-up-in-court-for-voicing-our-opinion/a579299552.html?

What is interesting, however, is that so many politicians, including those who previously supported it, are now vociferously against its introduction. Even former justice minister Charlie Flanagan, who was, ironically, the first to propose and support this act, has performed an about-turn and suggested that, maybe, just maybe, we should be more focused on issues such as housing. Sinn Féin, whose TDs initially passed the bill in the Dáil last April, are refusing to ratify it in the Seanad, and many senior politicians are beginning to realise the whole thing is madness.

Also noteworthy is O'Doherty's use of the phrase "assigned sex at birth" rather than "sex", and the funny sentence Rowling has argued that “freedom of speech and belief” would be at an end if what she sees as accurate descriptions of biological sex were outlawed. If O'Doherty subscribes to the belief that sex is assigned at birth I'll eat my hat, and likewise I find it hilariously coy of him to imply that biological sex is a notion of Rowling's. I don't say this to nitpick or criticise O'Doherty, I just find it fascinating that he's using these phrases and would like to know why. Editorial decision? Or does prevalent nonsense just settle like snow on even the vocabulary of those sceptical of it?

Bumping ...until I wake up properly!

Thanks, OP, that's interesting. I wonder if Scotland's embarrassing farce will have any impact on Wales' planned Hate laws, too.

'while society may have moved on from the days of a theocratic Catholic church, the proverbial “belt of the crozier” is still quite popular. It might come from a different place and it might come from a different motivation, but the result is still the same: if you blaspheme against the current and prevailing orthodoxy, then you can expect to have your public life effectively finished.'

Oh are they planning this in Wales too?

I think the fiasco of the Scottish law, together with the embarrassment Fine Gael etc are feeling over the referendum defeats, may just possibly lead to the Irish government dropping it. Harris (the new taoiseach) has a patchy past and to be honest I don't know what to think of him, but he currently seems to be listening to older politicians who called for a move away from social justice issues and back to things like housing.

I'd forgotten about Ian O Doherty tbh. Stopped reading the Independent around the time he was cheerleading for the invasion of Iraq. According to Ian the torture and sexual abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib was just a bit of horse play. Sigh.

But this is where we are. Any port in a storm etc. It is telling that someone as conservative as him has to use such evasive language. Still....the Indo is a popular newspaper without being a frivolous red top. Ireland 's original Daily Mail I suppose.

It is ironic to see old Tories like Charlie Flanagan and Michael Ring saying we need to get back to building houses ! Hypocrisy off the scale. But it is no less ironic to see Sinn Féin and People Before Profit saying ' This law we supported is mad. Something must be done'

Indeed something must also be done about the homelessness scandal - people sleeping rough as Dublin is festooned with luxury hotels. This has led to a lot of criticism of landlords both by the general public and by left / liberal writers and politicians. Some of it is quite scathing even caustic. Could it be construed as hate speech , targeting a minority? I imagine so. Perhaps this has finally penetrated the minds of our great and good.

It is ironic to see old Tories like Charlie Flanagan and Michael Ring saying we need to get back to building houses ! Hypocrisy off the scale.
^^
Indeed. But I'd rather they were cynically building houses than cynically introducing hate speech laws.

Oh I quite agree Mermoose. Something popped up about Cabra West on my FB feed a while ago. The largest housing project in Europe when it began. Started in WW2 when we were flat broke. Council / Corporation housing was built by both FF and FG / Labour governments back then. Now they give us warm words and lanyards.

And I'll be impressed with the Times , Independent and Examiner if they give a voice to people like Frankie Gaffney who called out the emptiness of Identity Politics a few years back in the IT. He has been completely vindicated despite attempts to cancel him.

He was ' read from the altar' in an open letter signed by some of the most powerful and influential women in Ireland. I tried to count the signatories once. Gave up after 250. But I don't want to condemn these people either. Because I wasn't paying much attention myself back then. In fact it was this missive ' Cop on Comrades' that started me thinking about all this. Frankie is a working class guy from North Dublin. His mam is an out and proud lesbian. And he is told to check his privilege by bourgeois liberals. Pfft!

I missed that. Yes I have to put my hand up and say a few years back I probably would have assumed the letter writers were in the right. Like you I only started paying attention because some people were being pilloried for dissenting.

Does anyone have any details about the Welsh version of these ridiculous laws yet?

I do wonder (hope) that given the hammering in the referendum and the mass exodus in Fine Gael recently, maybe we'll see more vocal objections. They must know by now that the general public is against this...

Former Fine Gael junior minister Lucinda Creighton urges the government to drop the bill in today's Business Post:

Lucinda Creighton: Dangerous Hate Bill will have chilling effect on free speech and should be canned

The essence of truly defending free speech is always about defending the right of those you disagree with to express their opinion. There is nothing “free” about speech that is only permitted if it aligns with the prevailing opinion of the majority. Free speech protection is not reserved for those whose opinions we like.

Excellent piece.

I watched the Netflix show Scoop yesterday, about the infamous interview with Prince Andrew about his friendship with Epstein.

There was a scene where one of the characters walks into Broadcasting House, the main BBC building in London, past the George Orwell statue, that has his famous quote etched into the wall behind it:

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people things they don't want to hear.

I couldn't help wondering about the BBC staff who presumably walk past that quote everyday, and the mental gymnastics required for them to shut down speech and opinions on their news site they don't like, while seeing themselves as left wing libertarians.

Hannah Barnes referenced that statue.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hannah-barnes-tavistock-clinic-gender-identity-trans-dzknslv9x

Tucked to one side in the lobby of the BBC’s New Broadcasting House, there is a statue of George Orwell, which Hannah Barnes used to walk past every day on her way to her job as investigations producer at Newsnight. It was the inscription beside it that would play on her mind: “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear.”