Julie Burchill on class

[ArabellaScott]

A couple of mentions of feminist related issues, including KJK's Party of Women.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/lets-hear-it-for-the-oiks/

Oh, and of course the music press - who gave 17 year old Julie Burchill her start.

That's another interesting change. A lot of places won't even hire 17 year olds for fast food now, and their parents worry about leaving them overnight alone.

You need to have some kind of higher education whether or not the employment you are interested in actually benefits from it.

I think squats, being able to sign on, and YTS etc were all important. Artists and musicians need time to develop before anyone is interested in their art. There are fewer young art and musicians coming through with any uniqueness, and I do not think that is a coincidence.

In response to a pp talking about schools. I don't know any state schools that don't put on school plays. The issue is that those WC students who are talented actors can't afford the expensive training, poverty wages and lack of work that starting out in acting entails. Especially if they don't have family in or near London to provide free/cheap accommodation.

We had a few decades where the working class were indulged, not just in the arts but in other professions too. It was a way to demonstrate how progressive an organisation was (the equivalent of today's woke I suppose) We all thought it was a changing of the guard, a new era. Turned out to be nothing of the sort, having a working class person or two with a strong regional accent was nothing more than a fad, no doubt entertaining while it lasted but now we're back to the status quo.

KellieJaysLapdog · Yesterday 12:11

I went to see John Cooper Clarke the other night - support acts Toria Garbutt and Mike Garry.

I've seen JCC a number of times, he's great. He played The Crowtree in Sunderland in 1997 and a young local lad - "Johnny Ignorant" had a set and JCC gave him a real "big up."

The Grand National isn’t attended - or watched - exclusively by people who aspire to be upper class.

Well obviously, particularly once it was televised.

I was referring to what the media still presents as the important events each year. Most of which came out of an era when the leisured upper class made them part of their social calendar.

Probably only Glastonbury is now treated by the MSM as being one of these.

ie the media hasn't kept up with how much more diverse society is in the UK, and Julie Burchill seems to get her information about current society from the msm.

I would have thought she was more astute and could have written about how being assimilated into that in fact quite narrow reflection of the world is in direct contrast to her early role as a journalist.

There is nothing to stop her, without having to leave her comfy Brighton lifestyle, what in fact are the aspirations of various sections of society.

And she might even find those "bright" working class people who she thinks dont exist any more, do exist but have rejected the route she chose.

I'm not sure this totally gets at the issue.

From a totally functional POV, of course families with fewer economic and social resources will tend to continue to remain in the same social class, while the children of those with more will tend to stay there.

And it's not even just economic, there are social reasons this happens - kids have some tendency to follow the way of life they see around them, and they tend to embrace a lot of the same values as their parents.

I'd go so far as to say, that so long as members of a social class are doing well enough to have economic stability, dignity in their way of living, and some political voice, many members of the group may not care all that much about upward social mobility.

The promise of social mobility is an interesting one, because it's not as clear as we might think who it is for. Most of the time advocates aren't proposing that we lose the jobs and social functions of the working classes. There will continue to be a working class, albeit receiving fair wages.

The possibility of social mobility for working class kids who might be interested in baking, or academia, or the arts, does benefit those individuals who have the talent and interest. But it's not clear to me that it has a lot kind of general benefit for the working class as a whole. (I won't say none - it means there will be some sympathy to and representation of views in certain sectors. As we saw in journalism in the old days.But it won't in itself make the wc positions unnecessary, so everyone will be middle class.)

I think the main benefit of social mobility is humanity - people are able to make the most of their talents, which benefits society. Though, it can mean the best minds are lost to lower prestige sectors - all the best minds become bankers, not farmers or mechanics.