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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/03/2024 03:15

PorcelinaV · 30/03/2024 12:02

If ever I came to the conclusion, "people aren't responsible for their bad behaviour", I would still probably think, "we have to pretend otherwise and insist on individual responsibility or it's just going to be chaos".

I suspect a lot of this stuff is people with socialist leanings that want to say, "the REAL problem is not having enough socialism".

I'm a huge proponent of social programs, MH care, drug treatment and so on. All over the boards. Constantly.

But I'm of the opinion that there are reasons, not excuses. We should try very hard to reduce the reasons, as much as we can, all the time. But those aren't excuses. People need consequences. We're just complicated apes and reciprocal altruism is the foundation of our psyches. The important word being reciprocal. There's a social contract and we can't let either side off its duty.

Women manage to be fucked up and not punch people in the face. Men can too. They do it because they can, and they've been socialised to think they should, not because they're fucked up.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/03/2024 10:07

It was awful to see. I actually can understand why some women want to remain in the safe, cozy warmth of the 'right' side. At least they have a team. Feminism does involve hard truths. It's easier to live inside the denial.

This.

guinnessguzzler · 31/03/2024 10:17

Totally agree @MrsTerryPratchett and its also about protection. For example with a child we might be able to understand why they are lashing out at their sibling but it doesn't mean we simply allow them to continue. I think it's an old cliche that women hurt themselves where men hurt others but it does seem to ring true to an extent. Doesn't mean we should just let them though.

MadelineMardigan · 28/10/2025 02:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

BeWisePlumShark · 28/10/2025 05:10

Wow okay. I was randomly hard punched in London on a busy high street at midday. Not on the face but over an existing injury that I must have been holding.

To make matters worse, I got my mobile out was about to take a photo of him and another guy intervened and told me had "mental health issues".

I assumed he knew him, but it turned out nope he'd just seen him about and assumed so. He wasn't acting oddly at all at the time.

I did report it to the Met but it was a bad idea and they were quite condescending.

I already had mental health problems and it didn't help. I was trying to get out and about more. Also original injury didn't heal right.

My therapist "disclosed" she had also been randomly punched in a different part of London and didn't report it because maybe they were "going through something". Hmmmm.

I'm not sure what the moral of the story is except to say, yeah this sort of thing happens here too and there are some people who condone it.

Pugslug · 28/10/2025 06:07

RebelliousCow · 30/03/2024 10:58

This brings to mind the image of Shani Louk being abducted by Hamas terrorists, half naked and seemingly unconscious in the back of a truck - surrounded by men with heavy armoury and one with his leg placed territorially over her lifeless body. This photo has just won a journalism award for photograph of the year.

According to many - this act of sheer brutality was the consequence of Israel's inherent evilness - and so can be contextualised away. The victim had it coming to them and Hamas bear no responiosibility for their actions. They are the real victims.

Edited
Show quote history

Why the hall did that photo win an award ..that is sick

Lurkingandlearning · 28/10/2025 06:13

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/03/2024 20:16

Why does it have to be linked immediately to drug and mental health issues, rather than violent men?

Because violent men usually attack women where and when others won’t see them doing it.

merkinmanipulator · 28/10/2025 07:12

London is full of aggressive, dangerous, mentally ill men, whether that's 'organic' mental illness or as a result of drugs or alcohol. I don't really care either way - I'm sick of having to be constantly aware on public transport when some man comes near me and is muttering to himself, glaring at me, waving a lighter/bottle/whatever around.

MarieDeGournay · 28/10/2025 09:00

That was a terrible experience BeWisePlumShark, I'm sorry you went through it and hope you got support - your therapist shared your experience but her 'he was going through something' probably wasn't what you needed to hear from her.
I hope somebody concentrated completely on supporting you through what you experienced, unprovoked.
If your attacker was indeed 'going through something', I hope he too got support to not do it to any other woman, but that shouldn't take the focus away from you.

'The moral of the story' is you and your right to safety and wellbeing and support and healing, BeWisePlumSharkFlowers

Greyskybluesky · 28/10/2025 09:04

This is an old thread (I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it)

Just wondering why MadelineMardigan revived it in the middle of the night and then immediately got deleted?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 28/10/2025 09:06

Greyskybluesky · 28/10/2025 09:04

This is an old thread (I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it)

Just wondering why MadelineMardigan revived it in the middle of the night and then immediately got deleted?

Whoever they are they revived a whole handful of threads and then got promptly deleted on all of them, so I think we can safely ignore…

BeWisePlumShark · 28/10/2025 13:40

Thanks. I don't know why the thread was revived I didn't realise it but it was a good time for me.

I wasn't convinced he was mentally unwell. Sometimes that is.something people suggest to understand behaviour they don't understand as it isn't something they would choose to do.

But yes that's irrelevant he shouldn't be allowed to hit anyone. Theres a load of options for the police / court system if needed like compulsory treatment programs. It's no reason not to take someone's photo and report it.

I am pretty assertive so I did point out to my (NHS) therapist that it was not a helpful disclosure. My view of her took a downturn honestly. I kinda said we'll do you not think the person who hit you will likely keep doing this?

I think what was hardest was the way the stranger interacted to support the man who hit me in the scenario. There is a sort of weird naivety. I don't know if there's a better word for that?

BeWisePlumShark · 28/10/2025 14:12

Just wondering why MadelineMardigan revived it in the middle of the night and then immediately got deleted?

Deleted for being perceived as racism I think as she was commenting on ethnicity. Not sure it was. I didn't realise she'd revived it I hadn't noticed the dates.

It's possible that both me and my therapist were targeted as neither of us are of black ethnicity and we were in areas of largely black population.

It does seem a bit coincidental. Thankfully I don't usually visit this area, I had a hospital appointment.

ApplebyArrows · 28/10/2025 14:39

People whose mental health issues lead them to physically attack other people at random* need reporting to the police who can decide whether to lock them up or section them as appropriate.

Ignoring them does nothing for their mental health or anyone else's. I have significant mental health issues myself that can be ascribed to incidents of this nature.

(* - I suspect these people are very rarely so crazy as to go around attacking people who are likely to fight back and win, so it's not generally truly random.)

Rightsraptor · 29/10/2025 04:10

If someone who attacks you has MH problems that is not your concern. You do not have to be 'nice' to them by not reporting it. It sickens me that women are supposed to put up with all kinds of shit under the guise of being 'kind' or 'nice'.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/10/2025 07:53

Yes, and even if you’re willing to let it go because you weren’t badly hurt, what if they use a knife next? That horrific scene on the Charlotte metro train comes to mind.

RingoJuice · 29/10/2025 08:14

Solrock · 29/03/2024 21:48

At first, Harvard did not feel it necessary to report her assault to the NYPD, thinking it was an isolated event. “I thought it was probably someone who’s mentally unwell, and I really don’t trust the police department that much,” she said. “It was violent, and I’m traumatized by it, but knowing the history of the NYPD and their use of excessive and deadly force, I didn’t want anyone to be lost over this.

This is part of the sad reality of modern America where educated people are so used to seeing everything in victimhood, that they tend to regard perpetrators of crime as having more right to victim status than the people who are the actual victims of crime. Is your attacker black, or seemingly a migrant, or behaving as if they are mentally ill? Well, it's unfair to have them arrested, no matter what they have done, and it's better, instead, to wring your hands over how terrible society is for making these people behave this way.

Stora does not match the description of Harvard’s attacker, but she believes she has a photo of the man who did punch her, based on a picture someone sent to her on Instagram. “It’s interesting to me how young women are better at being detectives than the actual police,” she said.

And this! So, you don't report the matter to the police immediately, making it more difficult for them to investigate, whilst at the same time contemptuously believing that, as a middle-class person, you can do a better job at investigating than the working-class police officers. And you base your investigation on a photograph someone sent you, which might look a bit like your attacker, seemingly unaware that these dubious identifications were historically the source of many miscarriages of justice against Africa Americans.

At least we can start to admit who is doing these violent attacks against women in NYC. Now you have to remember that in America the conversation is a little different than in the UK. African American men are by far the most violent group (and this isn’t my opinion, this is based on actual statistics) and female victims think they need to protect these guys? It’s classic DARVO

Why is it they feel like they are unable to report a black man to the police? They are doing nobody any favors by hiding these details, these men will go on to assault other women and they feel no responsibility?? We just have to quietly cross the street because of things we are not allowed to say.

I realize this goes somewhat differently in Europe because it’s a newly arrived group, but I recognize the same dynamics.

TheNightingalesStarling · 29/10/2025 08:17

Mental illness is a reason, not an excuse. They may need help not punishment but how can they get help if the issue isn't known? Next time the punch might kill someone.

RingoJuice · 29/10/2025 08:21

And of course it still happens and in this case escalated. This guy punched a teen girl in the face, was released and then started to beat two women with a pipe.

www.foxnews.com/us/blue-city-repeat-offender-accused-metal-pipe-rampage-just-days-after-release

Redberryhot · 29/10/2025 08:55

MattDamon · 29/03/2024 17:22

An entire article dedicated to minimising violence against women. Only in The Guardian.

That was my thought.

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