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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
MattDamon · 29/03/2024 17:22

An entire article dedicated to minimising violence against women. Only in The Guardian.

Igmum · 29/03/2024 19:21

I saw a TikTok video with a group of young women describing their attacks. Looks like incels getting violent. I hope they catch them.

MrsTerryPratchett · 29/03/2024 19:26

At first, Harvard did not feel it necessary to report her assault to the NYPD, thinking it was an isolated event. “I thought it was probably someone who’s mentally unwell, and I really don’t trust the police department that much,” she said. “It was violent, and I’m traumatized by it, but knowing the history of the NYPD and their use of excessive and deadly force, I didn’t want anyone to be lost over this.”

Male violence means that a woman can't report male violence. #BeKind.

What a world we live in.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/03/2024 20:16

Why does it have to be linked immediately to drug and mental health issues, rather than violent men?

ArabellaScott · 29/03/2024 20:17

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/03/2024 20:16

Why does it have to be linked immediately to drug and mental health issues, rather than violent men?

Because the worst thing about male violence is it makes men look bad.

guinnessguzzler · 29/03/2024 20:17

Yes, I hate that concept that seems to have come from the US but caught on over here too, this idea that women shouldn't report crimes because who knows what the police might do to the perpetrators? Of course the police should sort themselves out but why should women just put up and shut up in the meantime? The sad reality is that the vast vast majority of people who commit crimes will have had a crappy hand in life one way or another. It doesn't mean women should just suck it up. Women should not be men's emotional or physical punch bags.

I wish as a society we had a better way of dealing with damaged and dangerous men but women should not be expected to pay the price for the fact that we don't.

ArabellaScott · 29/03/2024 20:21

'This kind of stranger violence feels like the rape myth of a boogeyman who jumps out and assaults you'

I mean, fuck off. You respond to women being attacked with this shit?

Delphinium20 · 29/03/2024 20:28

I heard about this on Ovarit but haven't the stomach to read an article minimizing women's assaults.

I know it's a myth that we ever had a chivalric past, but damn, it also seems society is getting worse. I'd take some paternalistic "real men don't hurt women" any day over this, "shut up women, you're just an anecdote" any day.

MrsTerryPratchett · 29/03/2024 20:30

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/03/2024 20:16

Why does it have to be linked immediately to drug and mental health issues, rather than violent men?

IRL women have MH issues and drug issues as well. And PTSD, and PDs and trauma. But they are used as an excuse for male violence when male violence is present whether the other factors are there or not.

Don't get me wrong, I've worked in male prisons and male shelters and I have done good work with them. But unless we tackle wholesale socialisation rather than pretending it's an aberration, we won't make a dent.

Delphinium20 · 29/03/2024 20:33

Also last week in NYC, a 16-year old girl was pushed in front of a train on the subway and killed. She was pushed by a man. It's still male violence against women, so I'm curious why these incidences aren't seen as a collective issue.

MishyJDI · 29/03/2024 20:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/03/2024 20:40

Wow - minimising VAWG. Some parts of that article are so grim

Whatismypasswordthen · 29/03/2024 20:49

I had exactly the same thoughts, disgusted by this article.

Solrock · 29/03/2024 21:48

At first, Harvard did not feel it necessary to report her assault to the NYPD, thinking it was an isolated event. “I thought it was probably someone who’s mentally unwell, and I really don’t trust the police department that much,” she said. “It was violent, and I’m traumatized by it, but knowing the history of the NYPD and their use of excessive and deadly force, I didn’t want anyone to be lost over this.

This is part of the sad reality of modern America where educated people are so used to seeing everything in victimhood, that they tend to regard perpetrators of crime as having more right to victim status than the people who are the actual victims of crime. Is your attacker black, or seemingly a migrant, or behaving as if they are mentally ill? Well, it's unfair to have them arrested, no matter what they have done, and it's better, instead, to wring your hands over how terrible society is for making these people behave this way.

Stora does not match the description of Harvard’s attacker, but she believes she has a photo of the man who did punch her, based on a picture someone sent to her on Instagram. “It’s interesting to me how young women are better at being detectives than the actual police,” she said.

And this! So, you don't report the matter to the police immediately, making it more difficult for them to investigate, whilst at the same time contemptuously believing that, as a middle-class person, you can do a better job at investigating than the working-class police officers. And you base your investigation on a photograph someone sent you, which might look a bit like your attacker, seemingly unaware that these dubious identifications were historically the source of many miscarriages of justice against Africa Americans.

Delphinium20 · 29/03/2024 22:06

And you base your investigation on a photograph someone sent you, which might look a bit like your attacker, seemingly unaware that these dubious identifications were historically the source of many miscarriages of justice against Africa Americans.

EXACTLY!

The policing in the US (I live in a major US city here) is complicated and a lot of blame should be given to police unions for not removing and disciplining their racist and corrupt and violent cops. At the same time, citizen vigilantism is dangerous, for the reasons above and more. Also, police are so vilified, including all the good cops, that we lose a very vital civil order institution if we can't stop the actual criminals ... police are still our best defense against crime. While it's their jobs to investigate crimes, it's not their job to prosecute. So all the handwringing about not reporting crime shouldn't be laid at the hands of the police or the victims. It's up to our judicial branch to determine guilt and punishment...that whole separation of powers which I still believe is critical for any democratic country by the people for the people, etc.

Anglo-American jurisprudence, while not perfect, is still the fairest system in the world and to not allow it to at least attempt to work is forfeiting your duty as a very lucky citizen to live in a western country like the US or UK.

PorcelinaV · 30/03/2024 00:11

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/03/2024 20:16

Why does it have to be linked immediately to drug and mental health issues, rather than violent men?

Seems like it's part of "progressive" culture to blame "underlying causes" rather than focus on individual responsibility and punishing crime.

The real enemy is probably systemic injustice and the other side's political party, not the criminal that just attacked you.

Apollo441 · 30/03/2024 00:30

Funny when it's VAWG, it's all 'society is to blame' and excusing the individual but when it comes to indecent exposure in women's changing rooms it's transphobic to extrapolate this to not untypical male behaviour because NATWALT. Heads we win, tails you lose.

ilovemyspace · 30/03/2024 00:44

@MattDamon
An entire article dedicated to minimising violence against women. Only in The Guardian
Not sure about the tone of your comment??

Murica · 30/03/2024 01:00

I've been avoiding the Guardian mostly because it's so annoying. This bit in that article:

Feeling "safe” means different things to different people.

No sane person would find being punched in face anything but unsafe. Jeezus

MattDamon · 30/03/2024 06:53

ilovemyspace · 30/03/2024 00:44

@MattDamon
An entire article dedicated to minimising violence against women. Only in The Guardian
Not sure about the tone of your comment??

The Guardian hates women. Hope that helps.

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/03/2024 07:29

What a strange article, it seeks to try and blame everything other than the person going round randomly attacking women in the street.

AlpineMuesli · 30/03/2024 08:20

Some have used the women’s stories of being punched to cast New York as a violent, lawless hellscape. Chris Ferguson, a psychology professor at Stetson University who studies violence, aggression and media, finds this characterization problematic. Women experience harassment and aggressive behavior in the city every day. But though the punching videos suggest a disturbing pattern, TikTok clips alone do not make for convincing evidence of a standalone crime spree, he says.

Shush, he says patting our heads. You’re getting hysterical.

New York is expanding bag checks on the subway. How is this legal?

Officials have deployed thousands of armed police and national guard troops into the system. Critics fear a new era of profiling

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/08/new-york-subway-police-national-guard-bag-checks

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/03/2024 08:23

I mean I live in London, a similar world city, and I am sure authorities would be pretty concerned if someone was going round randomly punching women in the face.

I get policing in the USA is problematic but denying violence and problems does no one any favours, least of all the communities most affected by crime.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/03/2024 09:36

What a strange article, it seeks to try and blame everything other than the person going round randomly attacking women in the street.

It reminds me of their Cologne NYE 2015 coverage, over which I stopped reading them regularly.

Ginmonkeyagain · 30/03/2024 09:38

I think there is a decent article to be written about social media crime panics and how different groups are treated within the policing and justice system - but this is not that article.