Men who harass women are 'low status' males

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33613781

I found this fascinating.

'Two researchers analysed how men treated women while playing 163 games of Halo 3.
Men who performed poorly in the games responded by being hostile to female players.

The male winners were mostly pleasant to other players, while the losing men made unsavoury comments to female players.
"Low-status males that have the most to lose due to a hierarchical reconfiguration are responding to the threat female competitors pose," the researchers, from the University of New South Wales and the Miami University in Ohio, write. "High-status males with the least to fear were more positive."

In Halo 3, players are anonymous and only interact with each other by voice a few times during the game. Most Halo players are men.
When performing poorly, players increased negative statements toward women and submissive statements toward the men who were winning.
"As men often rely on aggression to maintain their dominant social status, the increase in hostility towards a woman by lower-status males may be an attempt to disregard a female's performance," the researchers write.'


The key thing that I took from this was the feelings of low-status males are more invested in their status compared to other males than in their relationship to women.

It's something I think interesting to consider when thinking about MVAWG in general - males lacking a father figure is one of the risk factors for abusive men.

When men are abusive to women, are they actually acting out their feelings towards other men? This would explain why so many narcissists see women as ciphers, not actual humans, too.

[PerkingFaintly]

Interesting article. Thanks for posting that, @ArabellaScott

[ArabellaScott]

It's very old, I should have added! 2015.

But the underlying point seems likely to remain relevant.

[PerkingFaintly]

Gosh, I hadn't even noticed that date. But as you say, likely to remain very relevant.

Your idea that they are treating women as cyphers to act out their feelings towards other men is interesting.

My own feeling is that they are attempting to establish a position for themselves in the hierarchy that is not at the bottom – and are using social aggression against women to try to position the women below themselves.

Of course these explanations are not mutually exclusive!

[Noicant]

I saw something similar about street harassment a while ago. Regardless of education level.

[Noicant]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265673227_Street_Harassment_in_Cairo_A_Symptom_of_Disintegrating_Social_Structures

I think it was this

[ArabellaScott]

Thanks, Noicant.

'This article argues that street harassment is symptomatic of high unemployment rates and of a consequentially weakening pa-triarchal system. It identifies the everyday spectacle of male-to-fe-male street harassment as indicative of the frustration and difficul-ties in adhering to cultural ideals in a time of immense structural transformations. These transformations have impaired Egyptian males' ability to fulfil their traditional role as economic providers, something which has resulted in their lack of achievement and de-masculinization.'

[ArabellaScott]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08912432231180152

I can't access this, unfortunately, but it looks interesting.

'We find that people are more likely to reclassify boys exhibiting feminine behavior into an alternative identity category (transgender) than girls exhibiting analogous masculine behavior. Thus, membership in the “male” category is more fragile than in the “female” category. These findings suggest that gender nonconformity is itself a gendered process, and that the durability of membership in a social category depends on the status of that social identity. This study provides the first causal evidence of the effect of gender nonconformity on perceptions of both transgender and homosexual identity.'

[PurpleBugz]

I wonder what the behaviour of high status males who then become low status is like. Do they change? Are they only ok to women when their ego is appropriately served by their high status?

And then a side note. If a man sees women as less than men and switches to the female category is this a way of satisfying that need for high status? The obvious example of this is in sports but it's also present in how some TW are very vocal about being better women/more desirable/more attractive/etc

[ArabellaScott]

I think it can be complex, and sometimes I'm afraid there are other motivations.

But the 'status' issue is an interesting one; perhaps not really something women are as invested in and maybe that's why it hadn't occurred to me before.

[songaboutjam]

Thus, membership in the “male” category is more fragile than in the “female” category.

This, I think, is the reason why some TW and TRA types attempt to wield insults like "TW are more woman than you'll ever be" and "I'm not scared of trans because unlike you TERFs, I'm secure in my femininity" (I have seen examples of both of these being used).

Of course, they don't work as insults because they assume the male status experience is universal.

[OneMorePlant]

As a long term woman gamer none of this is surprising. Pathetic mediocre men don't like it when women out perform them in any area.

It's extra bad in gaming because those men fail at everything else in life and convinced themselves they are at least good at gaming. Now imagine how upset they get when a woman comes along and kicks their arses.

For those who never game, in FPS games you get something like this

[FinallyASunnyDay]

This reminded me of ape behaviour- low status males on the fringes. I went looking fir more info on this and found this (not academic) from the guardian in 2010:

"These sorts of sexually aggressive male behaviours are more often exhibited by low-status males. High-status males who have repeatedly shown kindness, and are high status due to their mix of good genes for intelligence and physical stamina, are more likely to have females soliciting them for sex rather than their having to harass or rape in order to mate."

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/apr/19/unrequited-love-coping-rejection

I don't know how this translates to transgenderism, but it could just be an attempt to be accepted back into the group - a low status male can't do it as a male but by masquerading as a female, they have a special status and no longer inhabit the sme ostracised, low status niche?

[soupfiend]

I dont think this is particularly surprising in terms of the harrassment and hostility

However working with children, what I would say about the trans thing, is that it is largely girls wanting to be/saying they are boys rather than the other way around. And every single one of them (havent met any that dont fit this demographic) have either ASD/trauma/history of SA or a mixture of those 3.

[NigelHarmansNewWife]

See also incel behaviour.

[Gullsoaring]

@songaboutjam

Thus, membership in the “male” category is more fragile than in the “female” category.

This, I think, is the reason why some TW and TRA types attempt to wield insults like "TW are more woman than you'll ever be" and "I'm not scared of trans because unlike you TERFs, I'm secure in my femininity" (I have seen examples of both of these being used).

Of course, they don't work as insults because they assume the male status experience is universal.

They don’t work as insults as, for an insult to hit home, it has to contain an element of truth. And we all know there is no truth in these statements.

They are just a daft, childish lashing out.

They can’t hurt anymore than it hurts when your five year old calls you ‘ the meanest mummy ever’ because you are making them brush their teeth.

[Gullsoaring]

The article is as I would expect.

[GrumpyPanda]

@ArabellaScott

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/08912432231180152

I can't access this, unfortunately, but it looks interesting.

'We find that people are more likely to reclassify boys exhibiting feminine behavior into an alternative identity category (transgender) than girls exhibiting analogous masculine behavior. Thus, membership in the “male” category is more fragile than in the “female” category. These findings suggest that gender nonconformity is itself a gendered process, and that the durability of membership in a social category depends on the status of that social identity. This study provides the first causal evidence of the effect of gender nonconformity on perceptions of both transgender and homosexual identity.'

Just checked and you can request a copy through researchgate.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/371797903_The_Fragile_Male_An_Experimental_Study_of_Transgender_Classification_and_the_Durability_of_Gender_Categories

[FinallyASunnyDay]

Not sure what I did wrong but not worth rewriting. Just comparing low status males with primate behaviour as a scientific curiosity. Pah.

[ArabellaScott]

Wtf? Why on earth was that deleted?!

[ArabellaScott]

Humans ARE primates.

[FinallyASunnyDay]

Oh, my first post is still there. I think it was my comparing my DD's transwomen (will that word be accepted instead of what I said?) university peers to low status primates to enble them to identify out of their low status.

[ChanelNo19EDT]

@ArabellaScott

Thanks, Noicant.

'This article argues that street harassment is symptomatic of high unemployment rates and of a consequentially weakening pa-triarchal system. It identifies the everyday spectacle of male-to-fe-male street harassment as indicative of the frustration and difficul-ties in adhering to cultural ideals in a time of immense structural transformations. These transformations have impaired Egyptian males' ability to fulfil their traditional role as economic providers, something which has resulted in their lack of achievement and de-masculinization.'

Interesting, men basically recreate the patriarchy in all male environments. Prison, all boys schools. Sports.
Low status males have the most to fear from a re-created patriarchy. They need a rung beneath them.

[NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision]

@songaboutjam

Thus, membership in the “male” category is more fragile than in the “female” category.

This, I think, is the reason why some TW and TRA types attempt to wield insults like "TW are more woman than you'll ever be" and "I'm not scared of trans because unlike you TERFs, I'm secure in my femininity" (I have seen examples of both of these being used).

Of course, they don't work as insults because they assume the male status experience is universal.

Ohhhh.

Is that where those lines and variants thereof come from? I've also seen those being used, and I've always been struck by the gap between how effective the male trans activist thinks the insults are, and how effective they actually are.

[Crouton19]

@OneMorePlant that video is awful. Those men really don't care they are talking to another human being.