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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My response from Caroline Lucas re the Liz Truss proposal

93 replies

HelenDamnation1 · 22/03/2024 17:13

Thank you for getting in touch about the Private Members’ Bill that Liz Truss MP had on the list for potential debate in Parliament last Friday.

In the end, there was not time for her Bill to be debated and the Hansard record of the morning’s proceedings is here.

To provide you with some background, because Liz Truss is a backbench MP and not a Government Minister, her Bill is not likely to get anywhere. Backbenchers often use the Private Members’ Bill process to raise an issue/make a point, but such Bills don’t progress without Government support and I haven’t seen any indication that the Government are backing her Bill.

I am concerned that Liz Truss’s Bill represents an attempt to deepen the ‘culture war’ that is at the centre of the hard right playbook that politicians like her follow. Moreover, there’s a real risk around proposed changes to teaching guidance concerning transgender and gender questioning students. I'm very worried about any changes that would force schools to inform parents if a pupil seeks to socially transition in school. It is very important for pupils to know that school is a place of safety and respect for them and it would be totally unacceptable for Ministers to instruct schools to out trans children to their parents.

Outing a child to a parent/guardian is potentially a serious safeguarding matter, and it is not at all clear how this would sit alongside the safeguarding responsibilities of schools. As I understand it, schools are generally following a case-by-case approach that successfully balances respect for each child’s needs and wishes, with the school’s existing statutory responsibilities.

On the Equality Act, my view is that changing the law so that ‘sex’ is defined as 'biological sex' for the purposes of the Equality Act would gravely undermine trans-people's rights, including to go about their lives in privacy and dignity. Trans-people are often subject to serious employment or other discrimination, and to ridicule, harassment and hate crime. It is vital that there are proper mechanisms in law to protect a trans-person's privacy should they want or need it.

I am a proud feminist and women's rights campaigner and it is my view that we still have far to go in the campaign for true equality and an end to the patriarchy. I believe that standing up for trans rights is a fundamental part of that campaign, and we have more to gain by working together to challenge the prejudice, discrimination and exclusion so many women and trans-people continue to face.

It remains a great sadness to me that women's and trans rights are now characterised by some people, like Liz Truss MP, as being on different 'sides' in 'a culture war'. My view is this is detrimental to all women, both trans and cis. I remain of the view that it is both necessary and possible to promote and protect improved trans people’s rights, whilst at the same time defending and advancing hard won women’s rights.

Whilst we take a different position on this issue, I am grateful for your continued engagement. Hearing from constituents is hugely important to me

Best wishes,

Caroline

Caroline Lucas MP
Brighton Pavilion

Parliamentary Office
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA

OP posts:
Mumoftwo1312 · 22/03/2024 17:14

Outing a child to a parent/guardian is potentially a serious safeguarding matter

It's the opposite. Keeping a secret with a child, from their parents, is the serious safeguarding breach. Not the other way around

HelenDamnation1 · 22/03/2024 17:14

If you can’t be arsed to read it, and I don’t blame you. This bit is key:

‘It is very important for pupils to know that school is a place of safety and respect for them and it would be totally unacceptable for Ministers to instruct schools to out trans children to their parents.’

OP posts:
SirChenjins · 22/03/2024 17:17

Quelle surprise. The Greens are completely captured on this.

fridgegrazer · 22/03/2024 17:17

She obviously doesn't truly understand what safeguarding means. I would also wonder how much of a feminist she is if she centres men's feelings rather than women's privacy, dignity and safety.

My MP hasn't replied to me - I guess with the bill not being debated there was no need. Caroline must have thought differently and wanted to let you know she is a better feminist than you.

Froodwithatowel · 22/03/2024 17:24

Good grief, she's barking.

BackCats · 22/03/2024 17:28

Has she got children? She doesn’t seem to think like a parent. Anyone would think that babies are brought down by storks and everyone is equally responsible for them. What a thicko.

IamRoyFuckingKent · 22/03/2024 17:29

She is a complete cunt.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 22/03/2024 17:31

‘Women : trans and cis’

😂😂😂😎

BackCats · 22/03/2024 17:31

She has two sons 🫤 I wonder how she’d feel about their school keeping quiet about important personal information about them.

HelenDamnation1 · 22/03/2024 17:32

IamRoyFuckingKent · 22/03/2024 17:29

She is a complete cunt.

😂😂😂
thank you! I needed a laugh after reading that shit.

OP posts:
MississippiAF · 22/03/2024 17:33

IamRoyFuckingKent · 22/03/2024 17:29

She is a complete cunt.

Nailed it.

FrancescaContini · 22/03/2024 17:33

Oh dear

popebishop · 22/03/2024 17:34

What is 'outing' a trans child? Telling parents that their body is wrong for their personality because the teacher believes there is some sort of link between what a person is like and what their body is?
I mean, I can see why that's problematic but I would have thought that's because that belief raises some questions about sexism and homophobia.

popebishop · 22/03/2024 17:35

On the Equality Act, my view is that changing the law so that ‘sex’ is defined as 'biological sex' for the purposes of the Equality Act would gravely undermine trans-people's rights

Surely this is only if you transphobicly believe that sex and gender are the same? Or that trans people need to be dishonest about their sex?

MajorConsequences · 22/03/2024 17:42

Caroline Lucas is one of the few politicians who I respect. But whilst I don't agree with her on this matter, she has taken the time to give you a comprehensive reply (and she's correct about a private member's bill). The cunt calling on this thread is pathetic and the same type of tactic used by TRAs.

I do understand where she is coming from regarding safeguarding - Again I don't agree with her, but I volunteer with teenagers and know more than one case of a child being at risk if their sexuality was outed to their parents. Children should be able to trust that teachers are able to keep some things confidential, although this should not involve enabling a student to trans themselves.

MarkWithaC · 22/03/2024 17:57

MajorConsequences · 22/03/2024 17:42

Caroline Lucas is one of the few politicians who I respect. But whilst I don't agree with her on this matter, she has taken the time to give you a comprehensive reply (and she's correct about a private member's bill). The cunt calling on this thread is pathetic and the same type of tactic used by TRAs.

I do understand where she is coming from regarding safeguarding - Again I don't agree with her, but I volunteer with teenagers and know more than one case of a child being at risk if their sexuality was outed to their parents. Children should be able to trust that teachers are able to keep some things confidential, although this should not involve enabling a student to trans themselves.

Their sexuality as in their sexual orientation? Or their questioning of gender?

WelcomeMarch · 22/03/2024 17:57

It seems unnecessarily antagonistic of her to describe the issue as 'the culture war that is at the centre of the hard right playbook'. Just because the left is ignoring it does not make it a hard right issue.

HelenDamnation1 · 22/03/2024 18:05

MajorConsequences · 22/03/2024 17:42

Caroline Lucas is one of the few politicians who I respect. But whilst I don't agree with her on this matter, she has taken the time to give you a comprehensive reply (and she's correct about a private member's bill). The cunt calling on this thread is pathetic and the same type of tactic used by TRAs.

I do understand where she is coming from regarding safeguarding - Again I don't agree with her, but I volunteer with teenagers and know more than one case of a child being at risk if their sexuality was outed to their parents. Children should be able to trust that teachers are able to keep some things confidential, although this should not involve enabling a student to trans themselves.

I used to also. Do you live in Brighton? The place is an absolute mess these days.
so much traffic congestion due to unwanted cycle lanes causing so much more pollution.
The streets are a mess due to the weed killer ban and pavements are a hazard.
drug addicts everywhere, constantly begging.
I’ve always voted for her thinking we need at least one green MP, but no way. Not anymore. I’m quite gutted about that actually.

OP posts:
Snowypeaks · 22/03/2024 18:06

IamRoyFuckingKent · 22/03/2024 17:29

She is a complete cunt.

Please don't use this sort of language about another woman. If you think she is foolish, or naive, say so, don't just give out abuse.

And frankly, although she is utterly wrong and misguided, she has at least answered - unlike my joke of an MP who just does a cut-and-paste response every time I raise these issues.

HelenDamnation1 · 22/03/2024 18:06

And also, she hasn’t taken any time to reply to me. Some blue haired intern wrote that!

OP posts:
HelenDamnation1 · 22/03/2024 18:07

That’s as cut and paste as it comes mate!

OP posts:
Snowypeaks · 22/03/2024 18:08

WelcomeMarch · 22/03/2024 17:57

It seems unnecessarily antagonistic of her to describe the issue as 'the culture war that is at the centre of the hard right playbook'. Just because the left is ignoring it does not make it a hard right issue.

The whole answer reads like a TRSOH bullet points.

AdamRyan · 22/03/2024 18:08

MajorConsequences · 22/03/2024 17:42

Caroline Lucas is one of the few politicians who I respect. But whilst I don't agree with her on this matter, she has taken the time to give you a comprehensive reply (and she's correct about a private member's bill). The cunt calling on this thread is pathetic and the same type of tactic used by TRAs.

I do understand where she is coming from regarding safeguarding - Again I don't agree with her, but I volunteer with teenagers and know more than one case of a child being at risk if their sexuality was outed to their parents. Children should be able to trust that teachers are able to keep some things confidential, although this should not involve enabling a student to trans themselves.

I agree with this. I think she sent a detailed, respectful letter. She does not deserve name calling for it.

Snowypeaks · 22/03/2024 18:10

@HelenDamnation1
Even so - calling her a cunt is not on.

AdamRyan · 22/03/2024 18:13

My (conservative obvs) MP is currently focusing on backing a lowering of limit for terminations, "protecting against discrimination" by not allowing TFMR for downs syndrome after this lower limit and generally ignoring constituents.

He also thinks rapists and sex offenders should be anonymous until charged.

I would swap for CL and her thought through position in a heartbeat, even though I don't agree with everything she says

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