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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jan Morris article in times

15 replies

nythbran2 · 18/03/2024 08:08

Share token for interesting re-appraisal of 'Conumdrum' www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a5a9954f-191d-4b8e-a97d-df1eab2a1db7?shareToken=eb578b9e40c68ab569563217115542a6

OP posts:
Fenlandia · 18/03/2024 08:23

Thanks for posting OP. Sarah Ditum is such a good writer. For something a bit more bracing on Jan Morris, I can heartily recommend Stilltish's blog on Conundrum:

gendercriticalwoman.blog/2022/12/17/jan-morris-conundrum/

RoyalCorgi · 18/03/2024 08:25

I was decidedly unimpressed by Conundrum, though it's a few years since I read it.

Ditum is right to say that it reveals some very old-fashioned attitudes, not just about gender, but more generally.

I notice she manages to get through the piece without using any pronouns!

Boiledbeetle · 18/03/2024 08:32

Morris’s version of womanhood is farcically chauvinistic. It’s a world view where women are coy, decorative and bad at driving. When Morris is patronised by men — or even, in one case, sexually assaulted by a taxi driver who “kissed me roughly, and not at all disagreeably” before “patting my bottom” — it is received as a compliment.

As far as Morris is concerned, biology is destiny, and the female destiny is submission, not leadership. Of working for The Guardian, Morris writes: “I have a disconcerting feeling now that I disliked it because it was like working for a woman rather than a man.” The male body is “made to push and initiate”, the female to “yield and accept”.

I know it was always denied by JM, but there's something rather Malaga airportish about JMs views on women, along with a good dollop of examples, typical of the era, of male chauvinism.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/03/2024 08:42

Thank you, that’s a terrific review.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 18/03/2024 08:58

I was very friendly with one of Morris’ children at the time of publication, so I have never bought into the myth of happy supporting family.

Peskysquirrel · 18/03/2024 11:00

Boiledbeetle · 18/03/2024 08:32

Morris’s version of womanhood is farcically chauvinistic. It’s a world view where women are coy, decorative and bad at driving. When Morris is patronised by men — or even, in one case, sexually assaulted by a taxi driver who “kissed me roughly, and not at all disagreeably” before “patting my bottom” — it is received as a compliment.

As far as Morris is concerned, biology is destiny, and the female destiny is submission, not leadership. Of working for The Guardian, Morris writes: “I have a disconcerting feeling now that I disliked it because it was like working for a woman rather than a man.” The male body is “made to push and initiate”, the female to “yield and accept”.

I know it was always denied by JM, but there's something rather Malaga airportish about JMs views on women, along with a good dollop of examples, typical of the era, of male chauvinism.

What does Malaga airportish mean?

Edited to say: Ah right, I get it! 😆

ChristinaXYZ · 18/03/2024 11:27

Thanks for posting this.

Boiledbeetle · 18/03/2024 11:44

Peskysquirrel · 18/03/2024 11:00

What does Malaga airportish mean?

Edited to say: Ah right, I get it! 😆

Edited
Wake Up Smile GIF by STORKS

😁

JellySaurus · 18/03/2024 17:36

I don't.

Boiledbeetle · 18/03/2024 17:59

.

Jan Morris article in times
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/03/2024 18:05

There's a certain acronym which in the past MN hasn't allowed us to use. Given it's a much researched medical condition, this is odd, but there we are. We have to work within MN's rules.

JellySaurus · 18/03/2024 18:31

😂

FantasticElasticBand · 18/03/2024 18:34

Nora Ephron - as in “When Harry Met Sally” Nora Ephron?

@Fenlandia

Fenlandia · 21/03/2024 21:54

FantasticElasticBand · 18/03/2024 18:34

Nora Ephron - as in “When Harry Met Sally” Nora Ephron?

@Fenlandia

Yep

See
https://unherd.com/2021/05/nora-ephron-was-a-prophet-of-desire/

Why romcoms need selfish women

Nora Ephron was more interested in sex than equality

https://unherd.com/2021/05/nora-ephron-was-a-prophet-of-desire

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