BBC article about Harry Potter fans

[Hedgehogsaremything]

Harry Potter: Is Miriam Margolyes right that adult fans should 'grow up'? www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68552815

A series of books that apparently wrote itself. #WhereIsJo

It’s not as bad as grown me crying and fighting over 22 men kicking a ball across a field.

Yes it was popular with all classes, that's what's meant by populist. But it wasn't considered great literature like Ovid or Homer.

Shakespeare was the 'Game of Thrones' or 'Succession' of its time - absolutely people would have interpreted it as a reflection of what was happening politically at the time. In the same way newspaper columnists write op eds on Mad Men or Succession in relation to what they say about our society.

But they don't suggest they'll still be analysed in 400 years time as the epitome of art and culture in western civilisation.

The point is most things don't automatically 'become' classics at the time they are released. Time passes and some things become revered and some slip into obscurity. There were lots of other popular plays at the same time as Shakespeare but how many of those are remembered now?

I was trying to explain that there's no point in MM, or any other literary commentator 'worrying' about HP being taken too seriously or elevated too highly in the literary canon as some posters have suggested...in 100, 200 years they might be considered a classic of late 20th century fiction, or have been almost completely forgotten. Thirty year olds doing tiktoks dressed as their patronus in 2024 is unlikely to have a significant impact on how the HP series is remembered in 2224.

The fact that some grown ass adults stick mouse ears on their heads when going to theme parks must really blow her mind.

I mean really, is this just a dig at JKR?

Adults can like and spend their money as they wish, so long as it doesn't harm others. A bit of escapism doesn't hurt anyone.

Suede and the Manics double gig in Cardiff this summer, I'm super excited and I'm old enough to recall clearly that famous first Melody Maker cover!

Being an adult into HP is no different from being an adult supporting a football team, super into ballroom dancing, birdwatching, vintage cars, dirtbike racing, drag, trainspotting, metal detecting, amdram, or anything else really.

I'm middle-aged and read Harry Potter fanfiction. So do lots of other women. It's relaxing and harmless. I'm also a vegetarian, read Stoic philosophy in Latin, and am a dog lover. People can be complex and have a variety of interests.

I think it's more that there is a subsection of Harry Potter fans that are part of a community which can behave very oddly by many people's standards. Fans in general shouldn't all be stigmatized because of this group.

Miriam Margolyes is virtue signalling and pretending to be outspoken and fearless while carefully making sure she doesn't denounce herself out of another potential payday.

I find that much less mature and worthy of respect than someone dressing in a costume or liking a book.

but again, there are a subsection of most 'groups' that take things to extremes and are a bit odd.
Plus as a pp pointed out a lot of people very into fandom are neurodiverse to some extent, so criticising them 'behaving oddly' is essentially disablist.
Dressing up in robes and waving a stick around or writing stories about fictional characters is far less damaging to society as a whole than smashing up your local pub/wife because your team lost the match, which is what the 'extreme' sub-sections of other interest groups do.

Or the pony bros, not sure i got the name right but men who like my little pony. I wonder if she thinks this about larping in general. And don’t forget furries- oh no thats an identity, can’t criticise that.

It's such an ablest mindset. She may as well say she doesn't like neurodiverse people.

Yes neurodiverse. Yes Harry Potter fan. Yes professional job. Yes family and normal life. No I won't be 'growing up'. What am I going to do in my spare time? Watch the news 24/7 ? Read the classics ? (I already do) Wank off flashing soldiers?

I think for a lot of people the behaving strangely is the way some Harry Potter fans act like they are members of a Hogwarts house for whatever reason. It's like the difference between someone who considers themself a Liverpool supporter, goes to matches and wears a scarf and a person who talks as if they are actually on the Liverpool football team when they very obviously aren't.

Most people who enjoy things like book series just see it as something they enjoy, not part of their identity. I don't think it's necessarily harmful for a person have it become part of their identity but it's unusual and something a lot of people will find odd.

I was a Tumblr lurker circa 2016 and the culture at that time has likely contributed to the overall perception of adult Harry Potter fans.

Around the time of the US election, there was a small subsection of young adult Potter fans who incessantly compared real-life politics to the fictional politics of the Ministry of Magic. This led to some very tiresome discussions that lacked a lot of nuance, e.g. comparing candidates to franchise characters or even assigning them Hogwarts houses. It had the spectacular effect of annoying both Democrat supporters (many of whom were terrified of a Trump presidency and felt their fears were being turned into a joke) and the libertarians, independents and Republicans (who saw it as an example of the progressive left being unable to critically engage with topics without drawing juvenile analogies). It led to a whole meme / campaign that I saw frequently on Tumblr blogs:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/read-another-book

What starts on Tumblr usually ends up leaking into Twitter, so I wouldn't be surprised if this has influenced MM's views.

Needless to say MM is not popular in the Harry Potter fan circles right now.

I do think there are some odd unhealthy things that go on in fandoms now, not just HP by a long strecch.

I don't think it's quite the same as sports, though there is some unhealthy stuff with some sports fans too.

In my youth I was quite involved in role-playing games, and also with the Society for Creative Anachronism, so it's not that I'm really against roll-playing. And I was also involved a bit in some SHerlockian societies, so I am ok with some silly fun literary analysis and speculation.

It seems instructive to me though to think about the Sherlockians, because they were weird, but nothing like the toxic fandoms I see now. For one thing they seemed a lot less likely to be fleeced by junky tat sellers. But also - there was always a clear awareness that there was a level of pretend, it was self-aware, and there was a lot of humour in it.

Fandoms now seem so serious, and often toxic, and like they are way too much a part of the self-identity of the people involved.

Sometimes it almost seems to me it becomes a sort of substitute religion. (I went to a DR Who themed wedding once where that seemed particularly clear.)

A lot of fandoms also seem to require a very high level of conformity which does seem religion like. It's not a lot of fun.

"The behaving strangely is the way some Harry Potter fans act like they are members of a Hogwarts house for whatever reason."

Miriam M pretended to be a Hogwarts teacher on and off for a number of years 😂

Yes as a paid job as an actress.

Indeed. I assume she got paid pretty handsomely for it and stopped pretending as soon as the cameras and money stopped.

And I don't remember any news articles where she wangsted about how as a Hufflepuff she should be wearing yellow but the colour makes her look washed out.

I totally agree with this. It's interesting we see a rise in fandoms at the time when there is a decline in religious belief.

I know that there has been research into whether humans and religion and there's this underlying point that there may be this underlying need for it. Religion certainly is just about believing in something that can't be proven either to exist or not to exist:

Religion ideally serves several functions. It gives meaning and purpose to life, reinforces social unity and stability, serves as an agent of social control, promotes psychological and physical well-being, and may motivate people to work for positive social change.

It's also a time when the bonds of local community have broken down and people are feeling this increased sense of isolation. Of course communities will form around common interests and there are power hierarchies (and battles for power) within all these communities. They provide either a goal or another sense of purpose that isn't being catered for elsewhere.

There's a really interesting article on religion and how humans are predisposed to it and it impacts the brain by the BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190529-do-humans-have-a-religion-instinct

MM is atheist. It stands to reason she things she's above this. I think it's a snobbish reaction tbh.

It would make more sense in the context of the HP world if fans identified as Muggles🤔

But this is the kind of shit I see that takes it way too far in a frankly gross direction. I've just seen too much of this stuff, that's my problem, and I know it's not fair to judge the whole 'community' on the fringe weirdos but some of these people are not OK. Bear in mind the main trio are 14 years old at that point in the story.

How did we end up with different Christian and Muslim denominations. It's all about the analysis of the scripture and the different interpretations. Many of which bare absolutely no resemblance to the content of the actual script and are all about the distinct ideological and social beliefs of the believer.

Under the Banner of Heaven on ITV ATM is a useful dramatic interpretation of this phenomena. It's about differences and similarities between Mormons and Fundamental Mormons.

Yeah, when you're using that kind of language about young teen characters and their teachers I'm not inclined to analyse the whys and the wherefores. It's just not OK.

Yes but she wasn't born a paid actress - at some point she must have enjoyed pretending to be things just for the fun of it...?

I used to play D&D and similar games. It's a lot of fun to play pretend, even as an adult. But my roleplay never bled into real life or took on a life of its own outside of the designated context.

Similarly if people get enjoyment out of engaging with fandom material in their communities, that's fine. But I believe Raisins is referring to fans taking it into the real world, away from the designated spaces where there is mutual consent to talk about fictional topics.

But how often does that happen? MM is telling all adult Harry Potter fans to grow up and get over it. I just find it a bit rich coming from someone who is so invested in playing pretend, they chose it as a career. Apparently that's fine, but dressing up and going to conventions isn't.

I'm yet to meet a fully grown adult wandering the streets dressed as a Hogwarts student and 'casting spells' on muggles - I've met plenty of people my age (I'm 34) who have jokingly pondered in conversation which Hogwarts house they 'belong to', but it's not a serious conversation.

Although the sexual fanfic stuff is relatively disturbing, I think that's quite a subculture of HP fandom and not one your average adult HP fan would be into.