Gove's plan to update description of "extremism"

[AdamRyan]

Looked for a thread on this, as I thought it would be a hot topic on here but I can't find one!

Michael Gove is planning to update the definition of extremism:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/groups-fear-they-will-be-caught-out-in-new-definition-of-extremism-13092141

The updated definition is going to, according to a source, be the "promotion or advancement of ideology based on hatred, intolerance or violence or undermining or overturning the rights or freedoms of others, or of undermining democracy itself".

Miriam Cates is concerned this could affect GC activists or people with religious views

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/05/senior-tories-criticise-no-10-plans-to-broaden-extremism-definition

Any attempt to define extremism or fundamental British values is very risky because one person’s extremism is another person’s sincerely held and lawful belief,” Cates told the Guardian.“An obvious is example is where I regularly call trans rights activists extremists for believing a man can be a woman just because he says he is, and that this gives him the right to enter women-only spaces, but equally I am called an extremist for believing there are only two biological sexes and that you can’t change sex.”

I don't like the inclusion of "intolerance" in a definition of extremism and I'm worried this could be used to silence people with particular views the government of the day doesn't like, e.g. GC views.

Luckily they publish their policy so easy to check:
https://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/uploads/editor/files/HM2_Policing_crime_and_justice_manifesto.pdf

Labour will:
• Protect the strong powers we need to
control dangerous terror suspects
• Overhaul the ‘Prevent’ programme to
tackle radicalisation, boosting support
for community based work to counter
extremist ideology and extending the
number of local areas receiving
support
• Ensure people returning from the
Syrian conflict are properly dealt with:
in addition to arrest and prosecution,
people returning will be required to
engage with de-radicalisation
programmes to confront the
consequences of their actions
• Make sure our investigative laws,
powers and safeguards stay up-to-date
with changing technology
• Drive forward a cross-government
strategy to prevent hate crime, with
action in schools, universities and
social media

The proposals are not helpful in their current state because there's a number of areas which are inadequate in terms of definitions.

I get the impression the bill is still far from ready to go to the next stage, as there are so many concerns.

I think the lack of definitions is problematic regardless of who gets into power next because it's open to abuse.

The prevention of terrorism act is notorious for being applied to situations which it wasn't remotely designed for and this bill currently is the same. Both main parties are guilty of having used this act in this way.

Did you really mean that you're very surprised this is coming from the Tories?

They are definitely making a 'big thing' about how they intend to ramp up dealing with " hate crimes".

Well that's a bit different isn't it. Hate crimes are normal crimes where "hate" has been an aggravating offence. I think cracking down on that is a good idea.

I thought it was primarily to stop those groups from accessing government funding or operating with ministries etc.

There's an increasing argument to classify Stonewall as extremist especially after this week and their reaction to the NHS update on puberty blockers tbh.

Yes Gove's plan is. I was responding to rebellious.

I'm a bit confused to be honest as I thought all public sector organisations had to do a lot of due diligence already.

That's from 2015 I think (hence the prominence of Ed) the proposals for the next manifesto are here. Although they may go the way of the Green Deal https://labourlist.org/2023/05/labour-manifesto-2024-election-what-policies-npf-party/

Thank you!
I'm none the wise about the "hate" stuff then - it's not in there. I guess we will have to wait for the manifesto

I see 'hate' more as a rather indistinct and subjective matter, with the potential for a censorious modus operandi.......whereas outining a definition of 'extremism' is far more straightforward. As I understand it it is meant to prevent extremist groups receiving public subsidies or support.

It's not really "indistinct" as an adjunct to a crime. Beating anyone up is a crime. Randomly beating up a stranger because they are gay/black/disabled etc is "aggravated" and attracts a more severe punishment. Also it gets recorded for tracking purposes. I think that's a good thing.

Personally I'd like to see anti-woman crime also treated as a hate crime.

I think the terms "terrorism", "extremism" and "hate" should be nowhere near the statue books. Only specific and palpable harms:

• Causing explosions
• Murder
• Assault
• Harassment etc

Blundering idiots like the current political class should not be allowed anywhere near tricky concepts. They fail the "both hands and a torch" test.

I think I saw a bit of Gove’s proposal on BBC news tonight. I was interested that he said it wouldn’t apply to gender critical people, but then in the next sentence he added , nor to the trans activists, appearing to put us in the same box and as we know, the threats and hate are actually coming from one side, and it’s not ours.

Yes, they're staunch advocates of women's rights.