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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UN findings on sexual violence committed by Hamas

26 replies

ArabellaScott · 05/03/2024 11:32

A tough read, as you'd imagine.

Mentions the October the 7th attacks but also hostages.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68474899

An Israeli security officer inspects the scene of the 7 October attack by Hamas gunmen on the Nova music festival in Reim, Israel (17 October 2023)

UN: 'Convincing information' sexual violence committed against hostages in Gaza

The UN also found "reasonable grounds to believe" rapes took place during Hamas's 7 October attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68474899

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MarieDeGournay · 05/03/2024 13:25

The BBC website report is relatively 'sanitised' , I read a report elsewhere which gave horrific details of the evidence. Don't read the details unless you feel you must (to know the truth, to bear witness perhaps?).

What struck me about this report, apart from the sickening facts about the rapes, was the grudging language used:

THE UN ENVOY focusing on sexual violence in conflict has said there are “reasonable grounds” to believe Hamas committed rape.

It took five months to come to this stunning conclusion.

I don't want to repeat some of the evidence that was finally accepted by the UN, but the state of the bodies of the women who were shot as well as raped - in some cases simultaneously - makes it glaringly obvious that this was gang rape.

But according to the UN report:
While this is circumstantial, she said the pattern of undressing and restraining victims “may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence”.

'may be indicative..'???? This is ridiculous to the point of offensiveness.

I've avoided commenting on the Israel-Hamas war, and in this case I'd prefer to think of Women from Group X being raped and killed by Men from Group Y because the wider context seems to colour otherwise sensible people from focusing on this awful crime against women. Yes yes it was terrible but look over there...
And worse still a hint of, Well they belong to Group X who are doing atrocious things to Group Y, so... they were asking for it by being from Group X in the first place?

This report is valuable because it records the facts - well, the ones 'indicative' enough for Pramila Patten - and it is a source that could never be accused of being biased in favour of Group X. Full stop. Nothing else positive to say about it.

Finally, my heart goes out to all victims of the war, whatever group they found themselves born into.

Ofcourseshecan · 05/03/2024 13:35

The first news I had of the Hamas attacks was of a young woman's broken body being paraded, to an admiring crowd, by a bunch of Hamas men who were openly defiling her corpse. (Christ, I hope she was already dead at that point, I mean I know her name was later listed among the dead.)

That wasn't secret footage smuggled out to show what scum they are. That was their own publicity. They were proud of it. Like the snuff movies Islamic State used to recruit people who'd like to torture and kill prisoners.

That coloured my entire view of the ensuing disaster in Gaza. I can't unsee what the crowd was cheering.

Ofcourseshecan · 05/03/2024 13:39

And yes, the pattern of undressing and restraining victims “may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence”

What can I say...

WarriorN · 05/03/2024 14:03

No shit Sherlock.

I am appalled it's taken this long.

Anyone who saw the footage that night and the next was in no doubt what happened.

Sussurations · 05/03/2024 14:08

Thank you for posting this and the comments so far.

I think some people have almost forgotten about the hostages who are still being held. And I agree with @Ofcourseshecan about the open celebration of sexual violence.

Squirrel125 · 05/03/2024 14:10

Yes, just awful - made worse IMHO by the denials/ minimisation that followed from some quarters. My heart breaks for those poor young women and those still held captive.
I hope this thread can remain a place to talk about this report and these dreadful crimes against innocent women but anyone who has spent more than 5 mins on the Conflict in the ME boards will have seen how this is likely to go.

pickledandpuzzled · 05/03/2024 14:14

Ofcourseshecan · 05/03/2024 13:35

The first news I had of the Hamas attacks was of a young woman's broken body being paraded, to an admiring crowd, by a bunch of Hamas men who were openly defiling her corpse. (Christ, I hope she was already dead at that point, I mean I know her name was later listed among the dead.)

That wasn't secret footage smuggled out to show what scum they are. That was their own publicity. They were proud of it. Like the snuff movies Islamic State used to recruit people who'd like to torture and kill prisoners.

That coloured my entire view of the ensuing disaster in Gaza. I can't unsee what the crowd was cheering.

Absolutely. I’ve stepped away from paying attention and engaging in discussion, partly because of the amount of disinformation being shared. That initial footage was enough for me. From the perpetrators, shared and celebrated as success.

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2024 14:16

The ones who are still being held, they could be six months gone now with their rapists child.

The statement from the UN seems very mealy mouthed.

ArabellaScott · 05/03/2024 15:49

Squirrel125 · 05/03/2024 14:10

Yes, just awful - made worse IMHO by the denials/ minimisation that followed from some quarters. My heart breaks for those poor young women and those still held captive.
I hope this thread can remain a place to talk about this report and these dreadful crimes against innocent women but anyone who has spent more than 5 mins on the Conflict in the ME boards will have seen how this is likely to go.

We've managed to have largely calm, respectful discussion on the subject so far on this board.

Always holding the women involved in mind.

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ArabellaScott · 05/03/2024 15:50

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2024 14:16

The ones who are still being held, they could be six months gone now with their rapists child.

The statement from the UN seems very mealy mouthed.

Mealy mouthed is a step forward from fucking silence, is all I will say. I can't ever forget the weeks it took for the UN to condemn the mass, organised rapes, torture, and murders of October the 7th.

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HagoftheNorth · 05/03/2024 15:59

Meanwhile, Hamas has declared that they know no sexual violence has been perpetrated on the hostages, while simultaneously not knowing whether or not they are still alive.

As with Ofcourseshecan, I cannot unsee the behaviour of men towards women (and men) at the beginning of this episode, or forget the plight of the hostages.

Emotionalsupportviper · 05/03/2024 16:07

Like others here I can't bear to think of the abuses which were, and most probably still are, being carried out on the women and children taken by Hamas.

I don't want anyone hurt on either side - the whole thing is horrific - but women's bodies become a battlefield in every war and it is brutal.

Isreal is right to continue to fight for them. And we shouldn't forget them either.

MarieDeGournay · 06/03/2024 10:46

Well,that didn't last long, did it?

I mean the media focus on the mealy-mouthed, begrudging, belated UN report affirming that women were raped, murdered and tortured on 7 October. It didn't even get a day's worth of attention - the current main story from this area is about allegations of maltreatment of men who are detainees/prisoners - a very serious issue, no doubt at all about that, but the why focus on this news story to the exclusion of the report on proven sexual violence against women, on the very day the report was published?

For example, Channel 4 news last night gave over a large segment of the programme to the abuse of male prisoners/detainees, but appeared not to even mention the report about sexual violence on 7 October (I'm open to correction, in case I somehow missed it). Using one valid story to 'trump', conceal or neutralize another valid story is cynical and offensive. Classic whataboutery, instead of honest objective reporting of the human suffering on all sides in a conflict.

I've just scrolled back through several pages on the Channel 4 News website. I counted 19 items on the Israel-Hamas war. No mention of the UN report on the rape, torture, killing of women. Women who clearly don't matter much, if at all, in many newsrooms.

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 11:55

Reem Alsalem calls for an investigation into alleged detentions and executions of women and girls in Gaza.

https://soundcloud.com/unradio/rights-experts-alarmed-by-reported-violations-against-palestinian-women-and-girls?in=unradio/sets/un-news-interviews-2024&si=7ec646430f574b87b6ea47663dc52dba

Rights experts alarmed by reported violations against Palestinian women and girls

Independent experts appointed by the UN Human Rights Council are calling for an investigation into credible allegations of continued violations against Palestinian women and girls in Gaza and the West

https://soundcloud.com/unradio/rights-experts-alarmed-by-reported-violations-against-palestinian-women-and-girls?in=unradio%2Fsets%2Fun-news-interviews-2024&si=7ec646430f574b87b6ea47663dc52dba

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MarieDeGournay · 06/03/2024 12:45

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2024 11:55

Good that any such reports are investigated. If it's the UN doing the report, expect a grudging mealy-mouthed report around, let's see... August?

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/03/2024 11:58

From Twitter

https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR/status/1765424699754926372?t=mypuYMTISAFT4mM-qVkJcQ&s=19

"Bring back our girls"

150 days.

Can you even begin to imagine what they have suffered?

Dare you?

https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR/status/1765424699754926372?t=mypuYMTISAFT4mM-qVkJcQ&s=19

stealtheatingtunnocks · 08/03/2024 12:07

I hope they are dead. The prospect of them still being alive is too horrifying.

ArabellaScott · 08/03/2024 12:09

Oh christ. There's a horribly upsetting video under that tweet. Just a warning.

Naama, Judy, Noa, Romi, Arbel, Carmel, Maya, Eden, Inbar, Doron, Liri, Daniela, Shiri, Shani, Karina, Amit, Agam, Ofra, Emily.

Holding you in my thoughts.

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IcakethereforeIam · 08/03/2024 12:31

If it's all the same to you, I don't think I'll watch it. I can bear reading about it, but seeing it is too much.

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/03/2024 12:33

I haven't watched the video myself. (I didn't realise there was one - I'm not n Twitter/X - came across it by accident_

The reminder of how long these poor women have been trapped was enough to upset me.

I just didn't want them forgotten - it's too easy to put them aside when daily life is happening around us.

IcakethereforeIam · 08/03/2024 12:57

Don't blame you.

I wonder how many of the people marching for hamas have spared a thought for these women and girls?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/03/2024 13:01

Like others here I can't bear to think of the abuses which were, and most probably still are, being carried out on the women and children taken by Hamas.

I don't want anyone hurt on either side - the whole thing is horrific - but women's bodies become a battlefield in every war and it is brutal.

Isreal is right to continue to fight for them. And we shouldn't forget them either.

This.

Rosie1312 · 08/03/2024 13:30

I'm really sad that the International Women's Day march held in Whitworth Park in Manchester today is promoted as being in solidarity with Palestinian women, but with no mention of the victims of the October 7th attack or the hostages still held in Gaza. It just seems like the horrific ordeal these women suffered and continue to suffer is silenced. A march for women should be for all women.

ArabellaScott · 08/03/2024 13:44

Rosie1312 · 08/03/2024 13:30

I'm really sad that the International Women's Day march held in Whitworth Park in Manchester today is promoted as being in solidarity with Palestinian women, but with no mention of the victims of the October 7th attack or the hostages still held in Gaza. It just seems like the horrific ordeal these women suffered and continue to suffer is silenced. A march for women should be for all women.

Yes. March for all women. All of them. And every hostage still held.

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