Another athletics one

[Worldgonecrazy]

I don’t often watch sport but yesterday caught a few minutes of the indoor athletics. There was one athlete in a women’s event who looked VERY male and won by a significant margin. Anyone else see the same thing?

That photo of Jemina reminds me of Paula Radcliffe.

Back to the original question... I don't think the athlete pictured looks masculine in any way. She looks athletic. She just doesn't confirm to western beauty standards.

Looks like she may a wear a binder too - or has maybe had 'top surgery'?

Seriously? I look like that (chest wise, not athletic muscle wise!) in a tight sports top.

Is this thread really picking apart women who aren't deemed to look "feminine" enough and suggesting that because they have small breasts they may have had surgery.

Such a shame a woman that has worked so hard and got an incredible athletic physique gets scrutinised this way.

Many women who do a lot of athletic training (especially involving weights ) from a young age tend to develop less in the bust.
When did you last see a 46GG runner? (except the local park)

I have never seen anyone suggest that KJT has had too surgery or wears a binder. Some of these comments are utterly ridiculous.

As stated previously, this is not an issue that would have ever come up, had it not been for biological males repeatedly forcing their way into women's sport.

Women are sick of it. These female athletes are now suffering (their looks being scrutinised) because of it.

Its not because anyone here thinks 'women should look more pretty'.

I spotted a 36GG in the mirrror this morning.........it was very startling.

I am fed up of biological males in sport 100%. That doesn't mean that anyone who is considered not looking feminine enough to be torn apart without doing any research into them.

I hadn't seen anyone being 'torn apart'? Comments on ones appearance don't necessarily equal 'torn apart'.

It's very difficult to do any research, because of news outlets having an aversion to printing actual facts (several threads on this at the moment). Self ID in the media if not in law.

Lets keep the focus where it belongs, males don't being in women's sport, that is the problem.

There are NO transwomen competing in the female classification in athletics. They were banned from doing so by World Athletics in March 2023. Individuals who were observed female at birth but have a known DSD (whether XX, XY, or X0) can compete in the female classification provided they present with a test level of below 2.5nmol/l.

Devynne Charlton doesn't fall into either of these categories and frankly if you think she looks like a bloke you need to go to Specsavers. Or you're one of those lovely people who thinks that black women with short hair look 'mannish'.

And the comments about 'chest binders' are frankly bonkers - have you literally never watched women's athletics? All female athletes are small chested - a combination of self-selection and extremely low body fat.

Here's a photo of her with proper long hair like a real girl to keep you happy.

Jesus, this post is disgusting.

It really is isn't it? And completely ignores the reality of doping control. As if elevated test levels would simply go unnoticed or be met with a shrug by WADA.

the whole point about a DSD is that it's a birth condition which becomes apparent no later than puberty. 'suspicious' changes of appearance well into adulthood a la Florence Griffiths Joyner are the preserve of dopers.

this girl's height tells us she very likely has no y chromosome &, taken together with this, the pitch of her voice all but confirms it.

Do you remember when people used to comment on how masculine Caster Semenya was - and were castigated with similar sentiments about how out of order ( "disgusting") they were? Turns out Caster Sementa has a DSD of male development.

I'm not saying this must be the case - but the fact that this athlete is apparently consistently beating world records and her trainers say she could go much further still.... And how many people watched the race and did instinctively question her sex - does point to something quite unusual. That could simply be a case naturally elevated testosterone ( for a female). It most likely is.

Caster Semenya's "naturally elevated" testosterone, however, was down to the fact that Caster Semenya has XY chromosomes and went through male puberty, so people's perceptions actually turned out to be accurate.

The wider point is that because of the blurring of boundaries in sporting categories and the introduction of males and of people with DSD's into women's sport, people are going to question.I recall watching athletics in the 1970s and seeing those Eastern European women who, we now know, had been dosed since childhood with testosterone and just thinking that they looked like men.

Its a pity that for a member of a group of woman who regular bemoan the fact that some young woman feel the need to transition because they don't fit the cultural stereotype of woman, you're sure quick to identify woman who don't fit that stereotype.

Also you can blame the otherside all you want - but you're the one who is looking at a young woman at the top of her game and questioning her integrity because (checks notes) ... her gait and facial structure.

(I'm not mentioning the fact that it's so very often young black woman, or woman of color who are often (not only) the first to be called out in this way)

I've just googled the name, and wouldn't say the person looked clearly female.

I agree. No one ever questioned Fatima Whitbread's sex, although she had a masculine physique.

I think some of the photos where her arms are particularly muscular and veins are popping reads more masculine because we’re not used to seeing women with muscles so defined like that. But presumably the race has had an impact on her physicality, as there are plenty of other photos either side of races where her arms look more “normal” and on a par with her peers.

https://worldathletics.org/download/download?filename=2ffb8b1a-59e3-4cea-bb0c-5af8b690d089.pdf&urlslug=C3.6%20%E2%80%93%20Eligibility%20Regulations%20for%20the%20Female%20Classification%20%E2%80%93%20effective%2031%20March%202023

Sorry about the terrible url. This is where the World Athletics Regulations can be found on eligibility for people with DSDs to compete in the female classification.

They seem to relate (almost?) exclusively to genetic males who have a DSD, have female ID (eg birth certificate or passport), have endogenous testosterone outside the normal female levels, and are capable of responding to testosterone at least to some extent. To compete, they must suppress testosterone to within the female level for two years.

The process is, quite rightly, confidential. So any competitor in the female classification could be a male who has gone through male puberty and is now taking anti-androgens. An example being a male with 5-ard (completely normal male body, except with internal gonads and superficially female external genitalia).

This does not seem particularly fair to the female competitors. Have I missed something?

I'm not saying this must be the case - but the fact that this athlete is apparently consistently beating world records and her trainers say she could go much further still.... And how many people watched the race and did instinctively question her sex - does point to something quite unusual.

She has broken the 60mh world record twice. Of course her coaches are saying she could do better, all coaches would say that. What about Femke Bol- she managed to break the 400m indoor world record when it isn't even her even her event. Femke looks very different though so her achievements are not questioned.

Good point re Femke Bol.

Semenya is 5'10" with a booming bass voice. Literally everybody on the planet fitting that description is male. That picture is entirely flipped in the case of the athlete being discussed in this thread.

For the avoidance of doubt, here is Caster Semenya aged 15:

Just joining the chorus to say that anyone thinking this way needs in several ways to reset their thinking.

It's not 2020 any more. Things have shifted. In most sports we can be sure that people in the women's category are female.

It's not correct that women never suffered from being considered too masculine for sport before- Fatima Whitbread got a lot of grief for looking too masculine and so dud many other athletes. In those days it ws mostly discussion of doping rather than sex status but not always.

TRAs aren't wrong to say that sexism has always hurt women in sport. They just didn't see their particular issue as part of that sexism. Recasting the rules hasn't eliminated sexist attitudes and we need to check our own now.

@PermanentTemporary yep, Fatima Whitbread had the same accusations flung at her. And Denise Lewis. Even non-athletes like Michelle Obama have been accused of looking too masculine. I’m struggling to put my finger on what they all have in common…