Hampstead Pond - Brave woman speaks

[WandaWomblesaurus]

https://twitter.com/roseveniceallan/status/1764345843178512414?s=48

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Venice Allan

Because like a bloke in a Rape Crisis Centre, them knows where them's just a PITA, and is determined to make them's presence felt, because them the most important one.

All hail them.

Gender critical people conflate all women with gender critical women
I don't think I know what this means. Can you expand?

Disagreement is not bullying. That definition is the major point of contention between gender critical people and those who support trans rights.

Are you bullying me because you think trans women aren’t women? How would you like me not to offend your sensibilities without disagreeing?

More false dichotomies and misrepresentation from dadjoke. For him this is some kind of spectator sport, I suppose.

I know some of the women who use the pool and who attended the AGM. We talked about this recently and these women (who I would have assumed are completely feminist) see no problem with trans people using the pool. They have no worries about these poor, confused transwomen using the pool, because in their words "they are born in the wrong body". They are full of the Be Kind bullshit.

I am shocked that this is still the prevalent view among women.

Here to bravely fight women on behalf of all trans people. Odd hobby.

Sure. Gender critical people say things like “women don’t want trans women in women’s spaces” when they mean “gender critical women don’t want trans women in women’s spaces.”

You can’t miss it once you see it.

Here is a great example “Here to bravely fight women on behalf of all trans people. Odd hobby.”

She is conflating gender critical people who post on Mumsnet with all women.

Personally I generally stick to saying I don't want males in women's spaces. That includes males who identify as women. Why wouldn't it, given that there is no material difference between a man who doesn't say he is a woman and one who does?

Also, it is quite a lot of women who share my view, and they don't all identify as gender critical or even feminist, sorry to burst your bubble @DadJoke

It takes a lot more typing to keep saying 'gender critical women'; I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly often opt for a shortened version, and I wouldn't be surprised if others do too. I think people can fill in the gaps. I certainly can when I read posts by others saying things like 'women want single-sex spaces'.
I also often see posts on here acknowledging that some women have different views.

The very heart of this is the word 'woman'. Once you start using it to include 'men who say they're women', then it becomes harder to have a meaningful discussion.
When you say things like 'No. They are women who want to swim with women' you are attempting to block the possibility of meaningful discourse.
Or, as Jelly has it, redefining words to suit your narrative.
We're back to George Orwell.

The thing about consent: the person who says no, trumps those who say yes.

If men are excluding women by entering their spaces, if there are women who do not consent, that's the end of it. It becomes harassment, exclusion and abuse for those men to continue.

I'm honestly not interested in the words those men may wish to use, because words don't change reality.

So “quite a lot of women” - not all women in general. That was my point.

You, because if your protected gender critical beliefs, don’t want trans women in women’s spaces. That sentiment does not apply to all women, and your beliefs must be balanced against the rights of trans women and women who do not share your views

In my work and personal life I know a lot of transgender and non-binary people, as well as large numbers of feminist, trans inclusive non-transgender women. Adults of my children’s age are highly supportive of transgender rights, and this attempt to generalise opposition to trans rights as “being for women” rather than a subset of women (and their male allies in the right) is chilling. Seeing supposedly left wing feminists with whom I might agree on most points join the Daily Mail in punching down on a tiny minority is quite disturbing.

DadJoke · Today 10:02

Gender critical people conflate all women with gender critical women.

Erm... No they don't, you must have seen GC women here criticising those who are pro-trans in women's spaces?

Then that's the third spaces argument. The women that consent can use the mixed sex space to their heart's content.

Unless you are saying that non consenting women must be forced to submit to men ?

Yip.

Women's privacy dignity and safety are reasonable aims.

So “quite a lot of women” - not all women in general. That was my point.

No, but as a woman and a feminist, I will speak for women, just like not all women agreed with women's fight for suffrage.

You are not a woman so your male view about what women think is unimportant to me, and many other people.

I'm right here.

You are a man on a feminist board, n a site for mothers, arguing with women about what we should think and feel.

That was my point.

But you're conflating transwomen with women. When they are men.

Still haven't heard @DadJoke 's definition of "woman"

If I've missed it in the melee, I apologise

It's a shimmering constellation or something I expect

Oh - righty-ho.

I'd better get the Duraglit out - my constellation isn't shimmering much at the moment.

That doesn’t stop them conflating “women” with gender critical women in most cases.

Waffle.

I was directly addressing you, a bloke, who comes on this board for fuck knows what reason, to lecture and sneer at women.

@DadJoke

The women who are happy with transwomen in women's spaces are women who don't mind mixed-sex spaces. They exist. Some women need the option of a single-sex space instead. Why don't you want them to have that option?

Or, put another way, everyone on the planet agrees that sex-segregation is sometimes a good idea. Transwomen agree - but they want to be the only people not subject to the rules. Why?

What does it matter if 'they' do sometimes conflate women with GC women? It's possible, no, to understand that (as I said earlier) sometimes it's just a shorthand?

We've gone well off the core subject of the thread.