Women’s equality has gone too far, say half of Britons

[IwantToRetire]

About half of Britons believe that society has gone too far in promoting women’s equality and that men are now discriminated against, a survey suggests.

According to the results of the survey, nearly one in two (47 per cent) agreed with the statement: “When it comes to giving women <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/zzMH3/www.telegraph.co.uk/womens-rights/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">equal rights with men, things have gone far enough in my country.”
This marks an increase on the 38 per cent who said the same last year, and a rise in the proportion who felt this way as recently as 2019 (29 per cent).

A total of 47 per cent also agreed with the statement: “We have gone so far in promoting women’s equality that we are <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/zzMH3/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/19/wanting-to-hire-fewer-white-men-not-discrimination/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">discriminating against men.”

For those who believe that society has gone too far in promoting women’s equality at the expense of men, 59 per cent of men agree with the statement, compared with 35 per cent of women.

Sixty-six per cent of Britons agreed that women will not achieve equality unless men take actions to support women’s rights too (including 65 per cent of men and 68 per cent of women). However, the term “feminist” remains challenging, with only two in five (43 per cent) identifying with the phrase – an increase of eight percentage points since 2019. This rises to 49 per cent among women.

From an article in the Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/01/womens-equality-has-gone-too-far-say-half-of-britons/

Can be read at https://archive.ph/zzMH3

Misogyny is on the rise and it’s now far more acceptable than it was a few years back to openly despise women. It’s doubly depressing for those of us who felt optimistic when younger that all this would be sorted out during our lifetime. I fear for the future and no longer feel optimistic about where we are heading.

Misogynists and handmaidens.

Patriarchy is powerful.

We are told a hundred times a day by such insidious ways that men are superior to women that we are groomed to see any female progress as infringement of the norm.

And we can all guess which half. Depressing.

Don't you mean to say ' 47% of brotons WHO have been SURVEYED' say this?
I call bs.
Has anyone been asked what they think on these surveys? Or know anyone who has?

Just about to say this. It’s the old adage „if you torture numbers enough they’ll admit to anything „. Obviously no one should be agreeing but, if the poll was for example

Andrew Tates friends or c wing at strangeways in the sex offenders canteen then it would be quite skewed.

as they say in therapy, thoughts aren’t facts. I’m very sure a lot of men would agree with it though I’m not saying they wouldn’t.

A load of twaddle. There’s no way half the country thinks that!

About half of Britons believe that society has gone too far in promoting women’s equality and that men are now discriminated against, a survey suggests.

The male half? 😁

When all you’ve ever known is privilege, steps towards equality feel like oppression.

The problem with those kind of statements is they are simply untrue. It isn’t 47% of Britons, it is 47% of the people who participated in the survey. I didn’t spot how many people that was, but it wasn’t all Britons - no one asked me.

The other questionable thing about statistics is how the people polled are selected and if the selection is a fair representative of the whole population. Given how diverse the population is the selection would have to be massive.

How long would it take to collate the information from such a huge survey?

The question itself is subjective and will often be answered in light of a participants recent experience which might colour their opinion in the short term when over all they might feel differently.

I’m trying to think why any woman would want less than they have now.

Even the statement is incorrect. Equality cannot go too far. Once equality is achieved if the scales are then tipped it becomes inequality again. I realise I’m being pedantic there. I just find these types of sweeping statements based on questionable statistics annoying.

Confusing numbers. 47% think that equality has gone to far but 66% believe that men need to take action to achieve equality. So at least 9% believe both these statements!

I'm smelling bullshit methodology here or unclear questions or possibly people just not even realising what they are even saying.

A bit like tagging TQ+ onto LGB, referring to men who believe they are women as 'women' and then tagging them on to the mega promotions (eg the John Lewis month) or the incorrect labelling in crime news reports that we've seen recently, will not be helping one bit in terms of the understanding of women's rights as a separate class. Saturating society with the rights of ('trans') women detracts from the rights of biological ones.

The same survey company found rather different numbers just a month ago, with only 17% of men and 8% of women saying that women's rights have gone too far. That seems more believable to me.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/masculinity-and-womens-equality-study-finds-emerging-gender-divide-young-peoples-attitudes

Of course a lot depends on the precise question. If asked "do you think men are subject to sexual discrimination?", the right answer is that it does happen. Perhaps some phrasing like that has led to the implausibly high numbers.

I'm very much an "equality of opportunity" type, not an "equality of outcome" type.

I don't believe that the remedy to past injustice or discrimination is current injustice, and I don't think offers of roles or opportunity should be privileged on the basis of protected characteristics in either direction. With this in mind, I do think the move to "equity" rather than equality has been harmful to a number of causes, both on an intellectual level (people recognise the weakness of the equity argument and realise it's just justification for a power grab) and on a practical level (people shouldn't accept their own discrimination and rightfully resent it).

If people think that "equality" means "equity", as it now often does in modern discourse, I can see why people are beginning to feel less warm and fuzzy about it.

We don't need men on our side to live our lives and accomplish whatever we want, but politically it makes it much easier to accomplish things on a practical level.

The standard trick in contentious polls is to make sure you can't complete it without some sort of binary answer.

YouGov are past masters at this. Here's a regular question:

Who do you think would make the best Prime Minister ?

A) Rishi Sunak
B) Kier Starmer
C) Ed Davey

notice how (a) you have to make a choice and (b) the lack of a "none of above option".

Which suggests the people commissioning the poll wanted to avoid certain outcomes.

I always look at the sample size for any survey and for UK respondents it was 1,000 people. That's a very small number, but I think a lot of men probably feel like this. Misogyny is on the rise - Andrew Tate, incel culture, etc - but also men are now getting a taste of what it's like to be discriminated against and, unsurprisingly, they don't like it! A certain percentage of jobs at many firms now are ring-fenced for women, PoC, LGBTQ, etc, so if you're a straight, white male you are now in a group that no-one is deliberately trying to hire. They're getting a taste of what it's like to be in those historically less desirable groups and it realising that it sucks!

Let's start our own Mumsnet survey and see what we get

And the Daily Telegraph is about as stuffy and conservative as it gets.

It'll be all the men who are now struggling to live the life that women have had to lead for thousands of years.
Every time DH complains about being a marginalised, middle aged white male, I say I know just how you feel - women have always felt like that. Now the boot is on the other foot men don't like it 😄

There's a type of man that you only have to gently encourage for a moment or two before they express their frustration and disbelief that patting or pinching a woman's bum is frowned upon and that poor men are barely allowed to breathe these days.

You only have to hang out on the relationships board and AIBU for a day to find the type of men who wouldn't immediately admit it, but in actions express that really, they want they saw their fathers have in their childhoods: a woman who fed them, did all the kid stuff, did all the house stuff, did all the organising and sorting out, enabled them in all ways, and yet because of the new modern age, they want their female partner to do all this and work full time too, or she's sponging off him. If the couple separate it's remarkable how many men see the assets of the relationship as in fact theirs, and don't really have much concern about what will happen to their ex and kids as they move on to their next relationship.

There are plenty of men not like this. But you don't have to look far to find plenty who are.

Honestly how can anyone who isn't an idiot actually agree with such a ridiculous question?

What actual genuine reasons can such twats people have for saying this?

And let's entertain the idiocy for a second ... let's assume that yes, equality has gone too far and those pesky women are now making society discriminate against the poor men ... well good. Now give men a few hundred years of being shafted by society. Let them feel how we have been feeling.

Twats.

MrSand · Today 07:19

The same survey company found rather different numbers just a month ago, with only 17% of men and 8% of women saying that women's rights have gone too far. That seems more believable to me.

I thought I'd seen something like that and being very surprised that a significant number of women thought that. I do find it difficult to believe that nearly all men believe it, although of course, too many do. Not to mention the ones with the attitudes Frood outlined.

Think I agree with you although depressingly anecdotal evidence from some circles I'm in so show sympathy with the statement.

I need better friends, I know!

Indeed.

It's like those adverts for face cream which say "97% of women consulted say this cream is better than any other they have ever used in their entire lives" with a tiny asterisk, and in brackets, and even tinier letters, at the bottom of the table (*Results based on a survey of 9 women)

I find it amazing that when a survey does not give you the answer you believe should be correct - it is because of the sample size etc.

But when you want to believe the result and use it to attack current practice you fall over yourselves to believe the figures are true - I refer you to the claim a few days ago that a survey showed 15% of households are going without food because they cannot afford to eat. The sample size was a few thousand but you were convinced by it.

When you're used to privilege, equality looks like disadvantage.