New Finnish Study on 'gender affirming' care and suicide ideation

[sunshinellight]

I haven't seen a thread on this so linking it here
https://nypost.com/2024/02/24/opinion/a-finnish-study-is-changing-how-we-approach-trans-kids/

A major new study out of Finland found that providing cross-sex hormones and gender-transition surgeries to adolescents and young adults didn’t appear to have any significant effect on suicide deaths.

Link to the study is in the article.

SEGM, wrongly dismissed by this substack creator as anti-trans has pointed out :

https://x.com/segm_ebm/status/1761469819835269135?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

Using a robust methodology, the study estimated the suicide rate for GD youth at 0.3% (0.51/1,000 pt-yrs), with no evidence that transition reduced suicides. In summarizing clinic-reported rates, we noted that the highest suicide rates are coming from the transitioned cases.

just to highlight

”we noted that the highest suicide rates are coming from the transitioned cases”

This is consistent with previous clinician reports. That transitioners had a higher rate of suicide and attempts. Due to many reasons, even the realisation that transitioning did NOT help at all, that the health issues were too great to make up the euphoria, or other reasons. We have also now at least two fully transitioned people asking for or being given assisted dying due to distress about realising transition did not improve their situation.

Oh for anyone who wants to read a 'debunk of the debunk', a debunk of what the supposed investigative journalist Read has posted as being evidence that shows the opposite to the Finnish study, I shall leave this here.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/04/51524/

This also goes through the 51 studies bank posted by Cornell University. I had gone through them all myself before I read this.

I love how RMW, distinguished barrister, cannot even win an argument on mumsnet.

Guffawed, scared the cat.

The entire activist position is built on 'feelings create reality, not facts, and you must not mention facts that interrupt my reality because it distresses me'.

I think many once had some sympathy for this, until it was realised that even in the face of facts of great importance regarding serious harms to others - extremely serious - you are still supposed to kindly just not look and go on denying as instructed.

There is never a point at which this 'but my reality depends on you not mentioning this or contradicting me' takes on board that too much harm is happening. It isn't able to. And that is the point of 'fuck this'.

I'd love to accept the compliment, but the truth is that all the evidence is out there and blindingly obvious to absolutely anyone who is attempting an objective survey with the aim of finding the best/least harmful treatments to support children.

I cannot see anyone with a genuinely open mind looking for evidence based answers arguing puberty blockers are a good idea.

Children deserve the very best quality healthcare, and effective support. No child should be at the mercy of people willing to push narratives for any purpose other than those children's best interests.

The phrase in the back of my mind that gets louder by the day is 'start thinking now of a reason you supported sterilising children'.

Many of our visitors forget that MN is not Twitter and that you will be expected to substantiate wild claims and slurs. It’s a tolerable error in new arrivals but our frequent visitors really should know better.

The thing that always goes through my mind with 'bottom surgery' , although I don't think I've said it out loud before, is can these people (both natal males and females) even pee properly after this (setting aside sexual function)? It seems even that is problematic. Damaging healthy bodies is a crime.

Incontinence is a very common side effect.

As are fistulas between the cavity and the bowel apparently in male people, it seems.

And atrophy in the cavity. and hair growth in there and if it is an intestinal section apparently the smell is not good.

I heard Scott Newgent's account of this type of issue and it was horrifying

I think I can do without the gruesome details! It's lunacy, isn't it?

It is becoming apparent that for most men with a vested interest, transactivism comes before professionalism.

The most recent example of this phenomenon was the judge who had to resign after making a fool of himself online because he couldn’t contain himself when faced with opposition to his views.

More evidence that what these men are experiencing is an addiction, which they feed each time they transgress boundaries that they carefully adhered to for many years while building a career.

Never mind professionalism, what about the bloody humanity of considering what is in the best interests of a child?!

Yes, I was so shocked that this person, who very clearly has mental health issues, was allowed to undergo a procedure which has done nothing for their mental health and destroyed their physical health.

It really is unbelievable that in 'civilised societies' we have surgeons mutilating people in this way. It is not negligent so much as criminal, insane and monstrous. And you're shouted down and despised if you object.

So many brilliant responses to someone with a vested personal interest in all this. Funny how women centring children's safety and emotional health / wellbeing results in a consistent focus on evidence and research as opposed to ideological flannel.

It is indeed the most egregious crime of our time against a whole generation.

Thank you everyone who cares so much and speaks, writes, educates, petitions and takes action.

I do what I can but am genuinely in awe and grateful to the many who do so much more. It's really heroic.

Journalist is pushing it. Blogger is not a journalist. Writing for newspapers, or reporting factually for radio and TV is a journalist. It’s always smoke and mirrors. Robin would be laughter out of court if he called Erin as an expert in court

Comets the hour cometh the woman.

I can’t speak for the other women on here, but I’m just an ordinary working mother who had no idea about how stupid I had been about trans ideology until a few years ago. So I educated myself, found out loads, realised how captured society was, and from elsewhere discovered there was a lot of freedom to discuss on here.

So I make it my business to educate others, on here and elsewhere, with my children family, work colleagues. Contributing financially to crowd funders. I do the little things too. Wearing a suffragette lanyard at work, subtle. A gay older co worker asked me only last week what it was. My workplace is important, and totally captured in “in kind” mode. The Diversity section have no idea how gender critical I am. Frankly it amazes me how many intelligent people are so stupid. Or else they are either naive or playing the game. Luckily I have a decades long track record on gay rights and women’s reproductive rights. Plus I’ve no fear of my organisation.

The only work experience other than one article in Harpers Bazaar and one in LA Blade that I can see Erin has done is 'digital director for The American Independent from 2016 until 2021'

Newsguard describes the American Independent as a 'pink slime' site - 'Secretly Partisan-Funded Websites Posing as Independent Local News Sites'

“Partisan sites masquerading as independent local news publishers are designed to fool readers into trusting untrustworthy sources of information, which has the result of reducing trust in all local news as people realize they’ve been targeted for biased reporting” said NewsGuard'

https://www.newsguardtech.com/press/partisan-funded-websites-nearly-outnumber-daily-newspapers-in-us/

I have no idea what 'Newsguard' is, the US political situation is all very confusing. Just laying that info out there, though.

We have also now at least two fully transitioned people asking for or being given assisted dying due to distress about realising transition did not improve their situation.

This is heartbreaking - all of that personal pain poured into the hope that transitioning will magically relieve their mental and emotional distress - just to find that it has all been a lie, the mental and emotional distress still exists - in fact is increased, and now there is crippling physical distress to cope with, too.

And if anyone is wondering why we care…we are mothers. We have given birth. We have wiped tiny bottoms. We are not shy about genitals and we know they matter.

We want to see our children grow and thrive and love and have happy, healthy consensual sex lives. We want this for all children.

This is a wise post. We're seeing countless adults almost beclowning themselves as they unthinkingly push this ideology.
Doctors, teachers, social workers gaslighting children & ignoring their responsibility to safeguard children. Politicians insisting that women can have a penis. Peers arguing that safeguarding children is right wing bigotry. Privileged lawyers arguing that they're non binary and one of the most oppressed .....

As this thread demonstrates, none of their positions stand up to scrutiny, yet they still come out with the waffle.

We must continue to rage against this awful ideology that scars our children!!

I am so thankful towards our PPs and folks in Scotland and the rest of the UK who continue the fight.

Thank you!

I have read Erin's article and I'm struggling to understand the argument about the over controlling of suicide by checking for psychological visits. Why is this a problem with the study (according to Erin)?

I'm mildly amused about the "outdated diagnostic criteria". We're talking Finland, a very liberal and equal opportunities country in 1996, not exactly the Danish girl.