Gina Rippon & Prof Melissa Hynde on Women's Hour on the 'sexed brain'

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

From 10.38

On this study:

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/02/men-women-brain-organization-patterns.html

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2417690-ai-can-tell-a-persons-sex-from-brain-scans-with-90-per-cent-accuracy/

'an AI can distinguish between male and female brains scans with around 90 per cent accuracy'

Just listened to this - left me more confused, frankly.

Due to socialisation and the way the brain grows and adapts to experience (eg bilingualism) is there ever going to be any useful conclusion on the differences between male and female brains?

I understood from a talk by Prof. Sophie Scott from UCL that there was no difference, apart from average size, and that the female brain, although on average smaller, had the same amount of the crucial part that processes information (grey matter?)

Also from Sophie's talk that there were no differences in spatial skills or social skills.

Also, shout out to Mumsnet from the following interview with the campaigner for the Mother of the bride to be on marriage certs.

The thing is that 90% accuracy isn't all that accurate on a population level, is it?

It still doesn't answer the nature/nurture problem. The only way to definitely state the differences between a male and female brain are intrinsically genetic would be MRIs on newborns - which obviously is not going to happen.

Brains aare plastic and respond to environmental impact. It's a cliched example but nonetheless factual that a study of the brains of London taxi drivers, who had done "the knowledge" showed larger left and right hippocampi (part of the brain used in navigation) compared with the control group of non taxi drivers.

I"m not saying, by the way, that I don't believe brain differences could be genetic. I'm saying that studying adult brains is not definitive.

Gina Rippon described it as a 'no shit sherlock ' paper.

And she pointed out need to use sex instead of gender, albeit slightly obliquely

Interesting, will listen when I can.

“If we don’t develop these sex-specific models, we’re going to miss key aspects of the factors that differentiate [for example], males with autism versus control males and females with autism versus control females,”

Really important

It's also important to remember that sex isn't determinative. We need to know what average differences there are to support / treat men and women, but it's not deterministic.

Was just trying to see if SammySGS on Twitter has said anything about it and found a paper he's written for the paradox institute on brain sex differences

x.com/neurosgs/status/1759226256636190930?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/are-there-sex-differences-in-the-brain

(Long...)

Also from Sophie's talk that there were no differences in spatial skills or social skills.

The above article - which does basically say it's difficult to make clear assertions, says that there may be differences in how skills are developed between the sexes . And a lot about "on average" and "may." But also that the differences are there's and can be v important to recognise for some conditions and medication

Absolutely this. You have to avoid the confounding factor of plasticity of function in the brain (one of our big big strengths) - a factor which will basically ruin your study - is to scan neonates' brains. Or, as the plasticity may start in the womb (I've no idea), scan regularly from conception.

They might be doing something at the Mayo?

Absolutely. It's (personality, ability etc) apparently all nature plus nurture plus a percentage of accident. In varying amounts

And believe it or not Prof Hynde was one of my lecturers in my final year.

It is not so much about structural differences in the brain, as about differences in processing.

How much influence do hormones have?

Does the female brain instruct the body to release female homones? Or does that system finction with brain invlovement?

Never studied biology...

Interesting article by Kathleen Stock on this topic. 😊

https://unherd.com/2024/02/whos-scared-of-a-female-brain/

I rather fancy this scenario
"Hi, I believe I was born in the wrong body and I'm applying for a GRC"
"Well, we've scanned your brain and you're definitely a bloke. Now take your cock and bollocks and FO"

If only...

haha "Yeah, that part of your brain which makes your dick move seems to be in 100% of male brains"