Girl guiding introducing a 'more inclusive' uniform

[nothingcomestonothing]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13062715/Girl-Guides-Brownies-introduce-inclusive-new-uniform-row-trans-children.html

Sorry if there's already a thread, I haven't seen one. No idea what hasn't yet been included in the guide uniform such that it needs to be more inclusive.

Quote from Hemingway, who's designing it: 'We urge each and every one of this influential 370,000 strong community to have their say and together let's make a positive step for society.' They seem not to have qualified that suggestion with 'but not if you think men aren't women though, don't have your say then'. Weird.

Err 30 years? The blue and red is a lot more recent than that....

I think the writer of the article has made it a “trans” issue to be fair. They’ve linked a uniform redesign to an incident that happened two years ago.

Oh FFS. Have they not learned yet?

Although point of information it is less than 30 years since the last redesign. Just look at the top photos.

Actually I think this is a nothing story. They're wanting suggestions for a re-design and they're reminding that it has to be inclusive, which could mean suitable for girls who have faith-based restrictions on what they wear, or disabilities that mean certain items might be difficult for them, or for girls who have sensory issues that mean comfort is key.

I think their photo at the top is probably not from the 80s - I'm sure we were still wearing the weird air hostess type hat back then (which at the time I absolutely loved for some reason).

Will there be a sturdy pyjamas option?

Maybe it's from the late 80s, ditalini? The hairstyles look right, but the neckers aren't what I remember either -- we had the little crossover ones that you had to pin with a (well polished) badge in the middle.

That photo looks 90s. It changed while I was a guide/ranger... and then changed again. So early 2000s. It also added a headscarf in that review.

You might be right - 'inclusive' has become a synonym for 'all about the T',* *maybe guides actually mean inclusive. Maybe.

We had the neckers with the woggle but had the cross over ones in Brownies. I would have started Guides in I think 1983? (Did they change the age groups? I'm sure I was in guides until I was about 16 - I was a Young Leader for a bit rather than a Ranger, but I'm sure that was when I was about 17).

Apparently the horrific baseball cap that looks like it would be worn by a Midwestern farmer called Hank was 1990.

The 30 years refers to the last time that uniform was changed for all sections at the same time. This was the Jeff Banks uniform. Individual sections have had uniform sections since then but they are looking to do everyone together this time.

This is the DM putting 2+2=5 and is a complete non story. Long time rainbow and brownie leader here. Yes we are getting new uniform. It is nothing to do with the trans policy.

The uniform has all got really out of step with piecemeal updates over the last 30years - the guide uniform was updated the most recently, but the rainbow and brownie uniform didnt get a review at the same time. This project is the first time in 30years that all the uniform has been looked at in one go, will reflect the new branding that was rolled out last year and basically improve recognition of the organisation. There was a survey that showed that people didnt realise brownies and guides were still going.

The inclusive bit is about making it work for all those involved. The leader uniform currently is rubbish and def doesnt cater to women's bodies properly. Lots of members say that the current uniform doesnt work for ND girls who might have sensory issues around clothing etc. The sizing on the current uniform is really random. So overall, in my view, this is actually a great thing that is being done and will hopefully make the uniform more comfortable for everyone.

That's a great post, @guidingspirit. Thanks for the info. Hopefully one feature of the redesign will be a further shift towards wholly ungendered uniforms, which would be both trans inclusive and respectful of the gender critical stance.

The last big change to the Guide uniform was by Ali Cappelino in 1999.

Actually in 2014 by fashion students at Bournemouth Uni but truth and accuracy are in short supply around this story today so yeah, whatever.

The Scout uniform is also having a review... but unfortunately I reckon tradition will win out and we will still have the awful shirts. Honestly... the Guide uniform is a lot more pratical!

Yes

I became a guide in 2002 and I one of the first in pack to have the new uniform. Fleece gillet and a rugby shirt was what I usually wore

This at least demonstrates how the word and concept of "inclusion" has been narrowed to mean one thing, so that when it is used properly it is then taken the wrong way.

Lots of members say that the current uniform doesnt work for ND girls who might have sensory issues around clothing etc.

I vaguely remember that this point was made at the time, but by which time the redesign had already become the uniform.

I sincerely hope not. 'Ungendered' clothing tends to be cut to male body shape default. Girls in Guides are beginning to develop female shapes and proportions as they progress through puberty. Their leaders will already have women's bodies. They need uniforms cut to accommodate them.

Has any of the uniform ever been comfortable? I’ve been trussed up in worn almost all versions across varying sections; & as an adult the only thing that ever fit was the centenary polo shirt (in age 11-12).

I miss Guiding; but Girlguiding is such a clusterfuck of ableism, classism, racism & sectarianism that I miss only giving service to the [deprived] community I live in, feck-all about what has become of the organisation I was doing it through.

Catholic Guides of Ireland have a coherent “look” all through - & white polo shirt for the two younger age groups then navy for the two older ones as well as saying to wear navy joggers all through so cheaper & easier for parents. Even if Girlguiding brought out something like the Scout trousers that’d be an improvement on uniform for Rainbows then Brownies. Especially as the trousers get wider as they get longer: you can hem them, of course, for girls who need the waist size but not the length; & they do draw in a certain amount when the reverse is true -but nowhere near enough for tall thin girls!

Good luck to everyone stuck wearing whatever disaster eventually ensues…

I read recently that they were thinking of changing the uniform again because the previous change (from 2014 ish) meant the uniform wasn't really recognisable as being "Girl Guides". Apparently Guides would turn up at events etc and people didn't realise they were actual Girl Guides.
The irony about a "trans girls" being in Rainbows/Brownies is that the uniforms are basically trackies, polo/t-shirt and hoodies. They don't wear dresses.

Oh I see! That makes more sense.

Inclusive for whom?

Little girls from religious families who would prefer joggers to wear with their tunics? Little girls with sensory issues who find rough fabrics and seams really uncomfortable? Little girls whose wheelchairs so that they aren’t flashing their knickers wearing the old fashioned tunics?

You do know that the uniform has not been a tunic for over 30 years? Rainbows originally wore a tabard over their ordinary clothes, followed by joggers and hoody. Likewise the Brownies brown dress was replaced with joggers and a hoody. Guides and Rangers horrible A line skirt and blouse has been replaced with various designs of hoody normally worn with the girls own trousers/jeans ect.
The options of culottes (90's and early 2000's) and more recently the Guides pinafore were very rarely worn- certainly not by any of our Guides.

A hijab has been available since the early 90's at least.

So why change it then - inclusive of who?

I always liked the tunic and belt.