TERFs and the Irish referendum

[theDudesmummy]

Could any kind Irish MNer break down for me the reasoning around how a TERF should be voting in the referendum on 8 March? I am not usually thick but I am struggling to get my head around it, and would also like to explain to fully TERFy DH. (We are British, not Irish yet, not fully steeped in all the ins and outs of Irish politics. We moved here in 2020, and we have the right to vote in referendums here). Thanks!

I think it costs about €200 to notify the notify the marriage. I think the 20 million being spent on this referendum would have been much better put towards getting rid of that fee or even if marriage is too loaded a term for some people, lets bring back civil partnerships.

I agree its ridiculous when people want to be in a constitutionally defined family there is no stopping them. Someone I know said that we were told so often during the marriage ref about the importance of marriage and now we're being told it doesn't matter at all and its the same as getting a christmas card with someone.

The distress of single parents who feel that they are being excluded from the 'family' description by the mention of marriage might have been alleviated by changing the wording from marriage as THE foundation of families to marriage as A foundation of families.

I'm a single parent. I feel no distress (especially since I'm a mother).

Besides which, we're already protected, as long as you do take some sensible steps anyway. When I (unmarried) split with my children's dad, I had to go through a very similar process to divorce - listing out our assets/expenses and splitting the property we jointly owned and negotiating child maintenance and access. No need for durable relationships (which to me sounds like it's going to cause a lot of trouble for separated parents), or removing the word 'Mother'

fair enough - the distress of some single parents who have been given air time by RTE to explain that they feel excluded . . . .

I think RTE are being encouraged to find hard cases to push for a yes vote, and that is one aspect they have played up.

Single parents who feel that historically they have been treated badly by the state, and more importantly on a personal level, by family and former friends, and who feel that they would like some recognition in the constitution are the one group I have felt some sympathy for. I also feel that that is not in any way an argument for voting yes on either of the proposals in this referendum.

Good point @miri1985 . Either marriage/ civil partnership matters or it doesn't. Again , many of my friends are cohabiting and have kids. The present wording of the constitution has had no effect on their status as families or any benefits thereof.

I'd worry about those who already have to have a long-term relationship with someone they don't like due to a shared child. It surely would be durable in a court of law. Durable doesn't mean good.

Yes. It's a really archaic wording, it's ridiculous in 2024 there's even a debate on changing the phrasing. The words we use matter

The thing is, I think rather than vaguely hand wave some poorly defined term in ('Durable Relationship') we need to be educating (mainly) women on why they should be insisting on marriage before kids, and why they need to take being a SAHM and doing all this unpaid care at the expense of their pension and earnings a lot more seriously than many do right now. (admittedly, a do as I say, not as I do - I was never married, but then I never gave up work to be a SAHM, even though I did do the lions share - which - incidentally- is why I want to keep the explicit call out to mothers, because we still do do the majority of the unpaid care.)

ANYWAY.

If yes goes through, that's any thought of another relationship out of the window for me, I can't risk another access battle for my kids, or the resources I have to look after them.

Both referendums defeated massively 😁

Family one defeated 67 per cent to 32 per cent, Care one defeated by over 70 per cent to twenty something percent.

Largest no vote ever!

But marriage is the foundation of families. Single parents may be divorced or widowed, they are just as much families, it needs no extra recognition.