TERFs and the Irish referendum

[theDudesmummy]

Could any kind Irish MNer break down for me the reasoning around how a TERF should be voting in the referendum on 8 March? I am not usually thick but I am struggling to get my head around it, and would also like to explain to fully TERFy DH. (We are British, not Irish yet, not fully steeped in all the ins and outs of Irish politics. We moved here in 2020, and we have the right to vote in referendums here). Thanks!

Also they aren't going to legislate for durable relationships, it is going to be left to the judges to decide

FFS, then what is the point of changing it Roderic, why bother?

It's a bit ridiculous - on the one hand, they are saying hey it's no big deal, we're just updating the wording, it's not going to have an impact. Nothing to see here.

But on the other hand the government clearly want these changes enough to throw millions at it, to tell charities they must support this, and to not disclose minutes of meetings discussing it's impact on other legislation.

I can't wait to get rid of this lot. Roll on the next general election.

It's a bit ridiculous - on the one hand, they are saying hey it's no big deal, we're just updating the wording, it's not going to have an impact. Nothing to see here.

As well wouldn't any legislation that treats the people who are married and people who are in durable relationships differently become unconstitutional? We've just seen that in the O'Meara case

I've been reading through the interview with ROG and I still have no idea what he is talking about with 'durable relationships' He mentions one parent families a few times but surely the relationship there is the one between the parent and the child. what is the durable relationship here that needs to be defined?

I think one-parent families have reason to fear this change, as having any sort of undefined relationship that may be claimed to be 'durable' could give another person 'decision making' rights over their children and inheiritance rights that were not intended. Tinder users beware!! :)

Conor McGregor has it all over his social media vote No & No.

Basically saying anything government campaign yes for, don't do it.

He has a lot of followers and first time ever my DS asked how can he vote.

I've been trying for years to encourage him to register to vote and no.

Is there a way to apply online, does anyone know the cut off date?

Unfortunately the deadline to register to be on the electoral register for this referendum was last week.

Maybe encourage him to still register even though he can't vote this time, he can make his voice heard at the Europeans and locals this summer , its easy and can be done online with a PPSN and an eircode here https://checktheregister.ie/en-IE/

I will register him tomorrow.

My Dad brought me to the post office to register to vote on my 18th birthday. Nerdy loser then, nerdy loser now.

The wording removes women and mothers, who do almost all of the caring in a family. It also removes the unique idea of motherhood from the Constitution, leaving no place for women to be mentioned at all. Though the article has not been used its presence in the Constitution points out that women and mothers have distinct responsibilities not carried out by men, and that their ability to bear children should be reflected in policies for workers' rights, what is considered a living wage etc. Removing women and mothers and replacing them with 'people' removes this restraint. We need to work towards a society that centres women and their reproductive abilities rather than making male lives the default.

Uh-oh - Conor McGregor and the Catholic hierarchy are backing No/No. Brace yourselves, fellow-terven, for
'So you're happy to align yourselves with misogynists like the bishops and McGregor??'

Anyone unfamiliar with MMA fighter McGregor's attitude to women can Google Conor McGregor and sexism. Or racism for that matter.
'Get your t*ts out for the lads' was how he marked International Women's Day, for example.

Oh can someone please say that to the ICCL, that would be hilarious.

Like or loathe CMG, he has a following and a lot of young men and women are influenced by him and others like him.

He is selling the message as stick it to the government. If they want yes, we say no.

That will resonate with a lot of disenfranchised people.

I'd say more people loathe him than like him, would you not say so? I know there are many who feel disaffected and a subset of those admire him, but when you look at polling and who gets elected, Ireland leans heavily towards liberal.

Too many people vote a certain way because someone they dislike votes the other way, and I can see his stance making it harder for people to make the liberal case against the amendments. His opposition reinforces the idea that if you're progressive you should vote Yes/Yes.

I was glad when FLAC and the ICCL made criticisms because despite their flaws they can't be dismissed out of hand as right-wing.

You would be surprised just many people admire him.

I don't like him, I think he is vile as a human being but I admire what he has achieved, his determination to succeed.

Pity he isn't a nicer person. He reminds me of Andrew Tate, divisive.

Look at last election, FG were third with seats. LG made history as first sitting Taoiseach not to voted in first count.

Young people are fed up, life in Ireland is expensive and all divisive figures have to do is tap into that.

Stick to the government message and many will listen.

Genuinely think a lot of people are so unaware about this referendum, was chatting with someone about RTE and the Catherine Martin mess, this person was very politically aware and corrected me about when the media committee would be meeting to discuss it. She mentioned an event on the 9th that she would have to travel for the day beforehand and I said "oh are you waiting to leave on the 8th so you'll be able to vote in the referendum" and she hadn't even twigged that was the date it was happening on.

There aren't that many posters up around my town and unless you knew what they were referring to, I think you'd be none the wiser. I don't think most of them even have the date of the referendum on them

That's odd, miri1985, because we've all received booklets from the Electoral Commission, with 'Friday 8 March - Referendums on Family and Care' in large letters on the front cover, and in Irish as well. The well-informed person you were chatting with must not read their post. Or listen to the radio. Or use SM. Or read newspapers, if they remain unaware of the date of referendums. (Yes, that's the accepted plural☺)

I haven't received one yet. We also haven't received polling cards yet.

I still haven't received that booklet myself, I've gotten my voting card but this person hadn't and doesn't seem to be the only one who had received neither.

It was an older person so no SM but watches the news daily where there has been little to no discussion of the referendum

I agree miri. Those of us who are looking out for it see the discussions such as they are, but compared with previous referendums it's all very quiet and I am sure a lot of people don't know when it is on. I haven't seen a poster anywhere.

I wonder whether it's because both sides of a referendum have to be represented and that's not a comfortable thing right now, in case people go off script and start talking about whatever they think might be behind it? Or is it possible that the IT poll is right and once people know what this is, they don't want it? I don't think RTE is up to much other than reporting on their own woes right now (feels like 3/4 of Morning Ireland is RTE reporting on RTE these days).

RTE's woes are a massive and I suspect very welcome distraction atm.

Yes. I'm sure the paucity of discussion is because they don't want to broadcast any more 'No' arguments than they are forced to by law. When they have to, they make sure to use men, or people they have already type cast as 'right wing' or even worse 'religious'.

There were 4 people in my local village yesterday standing either side of the road towards the traffic with banners asking us to protect families by voting yes. I couldn't see who they were representing. That bit was obviously in very small writing.

Cork city yesterday. Lots of posters. All Yes. I'm afraid it will be carried with a low turnout.

I'll just vote Níl , Nein, Non , Nyet. No and No.

What's really interesting in reading the people looking for a yes vote is that many of them are doing so on the basis that it will make a family with unmarried parents constitutionally defined as a family. That's fine, as far as it goes, but I don't really get why people think they're a victim of their own decision not to get married if they want to be in a constitutionally defined family? There's no mystery around it. It doesn't happen by sheer luck to some people? Options open to get yourself down to the registry office, folks. You are allowed.

Do they consider the people who choose not to get married specifically because they do not want to end up with caring responsibilities for their partner's dependents?